Lever action shotgun, anybody play with one of these?

Seems like there are some countries in which semiauto and pump shotguns are illegal but lever action shotguns were overlooked in the drafting of the legislation.

John Browning designed the Winchester 1887 lever action shotgun, one of the earliest repeating shotguns. When the 1893 and 1897 pump shotguns came out they proved to be much more popular. I expect the same would be true today: a pump makes a better repeating shotgun than a lever action.

A member of my gun club sent me a link to PSA’s ad for this gun asking whether it would be legal for SASS cowboy matches. It’s not.

I’ve got one of the Chinese 1887 clones. It’s awkward to shoot, especially at Skeet doubles. Also, you’ve got to rack it like you’re trying to break it, which makes it painful to your fingers. I only bring it out when I’m wearing gloves.

Of course, none of that may apply to the gun you’re looking at. Except, as CF said, the pump proved more popular, and for a good reason.

No, but I want to. Though I wish they had made it less blocky.

I remember shooting my great uncle’s 1887. It had a bad habit of firing as soon as the lever was closed. While I would guess that it is fixable, right now it is just a wall-hanger.

PatientWolf said:

I remember shooting my great uncle’s 1887. It had a bad habit of firing as soon as the lever was closed. While I would guess that it is fixable, right now it is just a wall-hanger.

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Yes it is certainly fixable and you trouble is in cleaning, or worn parts in the sear system. (trigger/hammer).
As to that new lever action 12 gauge , I have not seen one. Too much damage in my right shoulder and upper back to do a 12 gauge anyway. Would be more interested in 20 gauge. I think it would be very interesting in 28 gauge if one of the ammo suppliers would make 28 gauge buckshot/slugs SD rounds.(just a thought)

adcoch1 said:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/bla...18-5-lever-action-shotgun-walnut-batpslw.html

Black aces has started selling these lever shotguns recently, and I've been really curious about them. Anybody play with one yet? I would think it would make a good range toy, and might even be a good woods shotgun for grouse, rabbit, etc with the screw in chokes.

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I want one ! Ordering soon !

Buddy of mine has a 9410 Winchester, fun little gun but a bit anemic for some uses.

A friend had the Winchester 410 lever gun. Looked like a 30-30 and scared thew poor kid pulling skeet as he thought the guy was using a rifle. Nice range toy but that's about it.

As I remember reading about the Kessler model 50 Levermatic.
Came in 16 and 12 gauge.
Was a box mag fed leveraction.

Found a photo of the levermatic action.

Not the Black Aces one, but I've fired an Ithaca 66 and a Winchester 1887.

Lever action shotguns were known in europe at beginning of 20th century.
Danish Larsen-Winterros - designed by August L. Larsen and C.E. Winterros of Liege, Belgium, 1884, with a tube under-bbl mag in the forend.

Black Aces has flooded the market recently. Anyone have any experience with them?

Rex in OTZ said:

Lever action dhotguns were known in europe at beginning of 20th century.
Danish Larsen-Winterros - designed by August L. Larsen and C.E. Winterros of Liege, Belgium, 1884, with a tube under-bbl mag in the forend.

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They were known in the US in 1887. That Larsen-Winterros is a neat design, very steampunk!

I'd have mistaken the Kessler for a Mossberg, it has that look.

Gordon said:

I want one ! Ordering soon !

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I wonder what Louis Awerbuck would of thought on them? What a cool guy and neat picture.

JCooperfan1911 said:

I wonder what Louis Awerbuck would of thought on them? What a cool guy and neat picture.

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He wouldn't like them, that much no doubt. The 870 is a much slicker unit.
The reason I want one, they are now out of stock, is that they come with the pistol stock and on that model AND the shoulder stock is short - 13" with pad. I wanted it as a disposable Jeep gun. The Remington 870s may never come back, as good as they were.

Gordon said:

He wouldn't like them, that much no doubt. The 870 is a much slicker unit.
The reason I want one, they are now out of stock, is that they come with the pistol stock and on that model the shoulder stock is short - 13" with pad. I wanted it as a disposible Jeep gun. The Remington 870s may never come back, as gfood as they were.

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I have an 870 Police model and it is one of my favorites. Slick as can be and an amazing gun.

entropy said:

They were known in the US in 1887. That Larsen-Winterros is a neat design, very steampunk!

I'd have mistaken the Kessler for a Mossberg, it has that look.

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Sometimes the Kessler 50 Levermatic will show up on internet auction sites.
Ive seen and handled the Kessler boltactions (16 gauge).
So its very possible with patience and $$$ you can latch onto a model 50 Levermatic.
Problem is the 1950's shotguns get a belly ache from modern waterfowl Steel Shot.

Something the modern Pardus Lax12 and

I have seen Kessler bolt actions at gun shows, but never the Levermatic. I wouldn't duck hunt with, but it'd be a gas to show up at the game farm and open the case and watch the eyeballs pop...

entropy said:

I have see n Kessler bolt actions at gun shows, but never the Levermatic. I wouldn't duck hunt with, but it'd be a gas to show up at the game farm and open the case and watch the eyeballs pop...

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My father has a Marlin model 56 Levermatic, back in the 1950's-60's Marlin produced a rifle that used a cam-and-roller system giving it an extremely smooth and short lever motion to reload a new cartridge.
This cam-and-roller system was originally invented by Kessler Arms Company for their "Lever-Matic" shotgun. Following Kessler's dissolution, Marlin licensed the idea and began producing rifles using a similar design

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  • Marlin 56: .22 LR, Box magazine (1955–1964)

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  • Sears 46c (Marlin 56): .22 Long Rifle, 7 round Box magazine (1956)

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  • Marlin 57: .22 LR, Tubular magazine (1959–1965)

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  • J. C. Higgins 44 DL (Marlin 57): .22 Long Rifle, Tubular magazine

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  • Western Auto Revelation model 115 (Marlin 57): .22 Long Rifle, Magazine (firearms)

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  • Marlin 57M: .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire, Tubular magazine (1959–1969)

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  • J. C. Higgins 44 DLM (Marlin 57m): .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire, Tubular magazine

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  • Marlin 62: .256 Winchester Magnum and .30 Carbine, 4 round Box magazine(1963–1969)
  I do believe that the Ruger studied the levermatic accelarator link design when they were developing their Model 96 leveraction.

It wouldnt be much for a turkish arms company to use that accelarator link to throw a rotary bolt instead of the tipping bolt lockup the Kessler & Marlins used.
I can tell you that the Marlin 56 can be fired so rapidly as to have other shooters think its a semiauto, while working the lever your thumb never leaves the top of the stock wrist.

Extra from the above .256 WM hyper link "
From an 8.5 inch pistol barrel the 60 grain .256 Winchester factory load was advertised as having a MV of 2350 fps and ME of 735 ft. lbs. This was 250 fps faster and nearly twice as powerful as the .22 Remington Jet, a varmint cartridge for revolvers that was also based on a necked-down .357 Magnum case.

According to data from the fifth edition of the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, handloaders with a .256 rifle can approximately duplicate the Winchester factory load using the Hornady 60 grain Flat Point bullet in front of 15.5 grains of H4227 powder for a MV of 2700 fps. The trajectory of that load looks like this: +2.3 inches at 50 yards, +4.4 inches at 100 yards, 0 at 200 yards, and -26.2 inches at 300 yards.

Winchester offered factory loaded .256 Magnum ammunition (and brass to reloaders) into the beginning of the 1990s. Winchester .256 factory loads used a 60 grain Open Point Expanding bullet at a MV of 2760 fps and ME of 1015 ft. lbs. from a 24-inch rifle barrel. That is about 500 fps faster than Winchester factory loads for the old .25-20 cartridge. At 200 yards the velocity was 1542 fps and the remaining energy was 317 ft. lbs."

Oh La La ! and I have a T/c Custom shop 10" octagon barrel with a 3x T/C Lobo on it , I have not shot it in years ! I still have 2 1/2 Boxes of factory loads and a few reloads that I made up which use 75 Grain Sierra Hollow points over Win 296 . The velocities for my load on the green plastic MTM label reads " 2450 FPS very accurate " soooo think of it as fully capable of dropping a 200 pound or less deer or pig in 200 yards or less fun ! Mt Remington model 25-20 pump is good but only half or less of range. I see light on the END OF THE retirement tunnel !

I hope you guys let us know about your experences with the Black Ace.
I called up couple arms venders and found they wont ship long arms to Alaska from America.
We are very limited on what we can order and have shipped.

Rex in OTZ said:

I called up couple arms venders and found they wont ship long arms to Alaska from America.

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And their reason was what?

Cvans said:

And their reason was what?

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The companies said the risk of damage or theft by UPS & FedEx in transit to Alaska was too much of a liability.

Yet I can place an order online, they can ship a handgun to my local FFL no problem.
I find that strange to me.

Sounds a little sketchy to me. Pretty soon we won't be able to ship anything because it might get stolen by the shippers employees.