Black Powder Pistols in the News

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woodnbow said:
I’ve told before the story of a domestic violence/shooting I responded to many years ago. The shooter was a little lady in her 40’s and the decedent was a big strapping cowboy 6’1” and about 200#. She dropped him with one .44 round ball from a Remington Army revolver. Hit the top of his heart and he never took another step. He had cocaine and alcohol in his system and was an extremely violent person.
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I guess Sam Colt was right. Every body is the same size when armed.

brewer12345 said:
The only problem is that they are awfully heavy for what they are. I was quite happy to find that they make a lighter version with a modern grip/frame and you can even get it is SV30 steel. I love mine.
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I keep meaning to pick up one of these but I always forget. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Buck-Knives-110LT-Folding-Hunter-Lite-Lock-Back-Folding-Knife/124767996
 
Black powder weapons rarely are chosen for violent crimes.
They are big,hard to reload, have limited firepower and
are prone to cap jams and misfires. As defensive weapons
they are Ok since any gun is better than no gun. Also, many
black powder guns do not have serial numbers and are not
recorded. For the same price, criminals can buy black market
modern guns on the street. Black powder guns pose a very
small risk to society. The mentally ill would find loading and
using a black powder gun very difficult. Also, black powder
guns are the original guns that the 2nd Amendment protects.
Gasoline and a lighter are far more dangerous in the right hands.
 
"The mentally ill would find loading and using a black powder gun very difficult."

A very bad assumption. The mental health field is a vast unchartered confusing forest that even experts who have dedicated their whole life to the field have trouble understanding and navigating. That is despite all the knowledge they have gained.

People of all kinds are afflicted with mental illness and a good number of them are super intelligent to pure genius. A lot smarter than probably you and certainly me. Creativity is far from lacking.

The truth is that most people who intend to use guns for combat view muzzle loaders as toys not to be bothered with. In relative terms compared to the advantages of modern firearms that reasoning can be understood. Getting a modern firearm illegally is much less of a a hassle for someone who has no regard for the law. They probably see no point in getting an obsolete muzzleloader.

Crimes committed with muzzle loaders are the rare exception not the rule.

Your point about gasoline and matches being dangerous is true. There is a problem with violence in this country. More people (much more) are killed and injured by other means such as knives, blunt objects, ect... than they are with firearms. This does not garner media attention like the stereotypical madman with a gun.

Solutions to violence are going to require money and work. Political leaders would rather blame and punish all gun owners than commit to solving the problem of violence in this country. A scapegoat such as honest law abiding gun owners is who they are targeting these days to divert attention away from the real issue, that is the lack of respect for human life in the US.
 
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BEEMAX said:
Black powder weapons rarely are chosen for violent crimes.
They are big,hard to reload, have limited firepower and
are prone to cap jams and misfires. As defensive weapons
they are Ok since any gun is better than no gun. Also, many
black powder guns do not have serial numbers and are not
recorded. For the same price, criminals can buy black market
modern guns on the street. Black powder guns pose a very
small risk to society. The mentally ill would find loading and
using a black powder gun very difficult. Also, black powder
guns are the original guns that the 2nd Amendment protects.
Gasoline and a lighter are far more dangerous in the right hands.
Click to expand...

As right as you are, banning guns was never about public safety. It’s about power and who is allowed to wield it.
 
woodnbow said:
If a person is so dangerous that we can’t trust them with arms for self defense (a God given right IMO) then what the hell is that person doing walking around free?
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They are walking around free for several reasons:

1. They are released early because of overcrowding of prisons.

2. The prosecutor entered into a plea deal for a reduced sentence.

3. They are cut loose by the parole board.

4, Some states have minimum sentences for violent crimes: Judges and prosecutors get around that. Recently a career Lawton, OK criminal was given a "20 year sentence" for a home invasion. Yep, ten years suspended, five years probation and five years to serve. The perp will be out in 2-3 years. The prosecutor failed to add felon in possession of a firearm to his charge sheet.

5. Many of the same "tough on crime" political hacks who demand long sentences, get stingy and refuse to build more prisons.

i worked for a couple years as a corrections officer and can say you don't want your daughter bringing one of these guys home.
 
Guns was never the original intent of the 2A. It was arms sufficient to throw off tyranny. The belief that it is about anything else is where the anti-gun crowd gains a foot-hold. It is like saying the 1st A was about quill pens and rudimentary printing presses. That is why it is the timeless “speech” and “Arms” is written and “The People” is everybody. Any law that abridges any Constitutional RIGHT, not privilege granted , should be defended to the letter.
 
alsaqr said:
They are walking around free for several reasons:

1. They are released early because of overcrowding of prisons.

Because the prisons are filled with a whole bunch of non violent offenders.


2. The prosecutor entered into a plea deal for a reduced sentence.

It seems that many times the worst scum get the best deals because they know better than to trust the system and won't surrender their rights. I think the average person could learn a thing or two from this and assert their rights like a true American should.

3. They are cut loose by the parole board.

I think parole boards in general are likely to keep people in jail.


4, Some states have minimum sentences for violent crimes: Judges and prosecutors get around that. Recently a career Lawton, OK criminal was given a "20 year sentence" for a home invasion. Yep, ten years suspended, five years probation and five years to serve. The perp will be out in 2-3 years. The prosecutor failed to add felon in possession of a firearm to his charge sheet.

It sounds suspicious to me. They either did not have enough evidence or they cut some sort of deal with him for information. Judges have been known to take bribes also. All this kind of stuff happens all the time.

5. Many of the same "tough on crime" political hacks who demand long sentences, get stingy and refuse to build more prisons.

There is a sucker born every second. These people will say anything to get votes even if it's a full crock. If they could make money and/or were able to they would build more prisons. I am relieved that they can't because it won't solve a thing and they know it but if a bunch of people are foolish enough to believe their messianic claims to be able to solve the oldest most unsolved problems of mankind they will surely exploit their stupidity.

We don't need more strict mandatory laws. There are enough of them on the books already. Again we need jail space for violent criminals not non violent offenders. The corrections department has been ripping off this country for decades. Prisons are sucking our economy dry. It is number one in the most expense and they want even more. Close down a few of these prisons and you will free HUGE amounts of money to be used for better purposes.

i worked for a couple years as a corrections officer and can say you don't want your daughter bringing one of these guys home.
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You would not want your daughter sitting on the adjacent bench next to one of these guys in a prison cell while waiting to see a judge for jaywalking in this new get tough on crime utopia you are proposing. You would want the jail space to be available for real criminals only. Cramming a whole bunch of non violent offenders in the same room with hardened violent offenders is a pretty stupid move if the goal is to decrease crime. They cannot build enough prisons to contain all these people if they tried. People who don't belong in prison should not be in prison and people who belong in prison should be in prison. As far as corrections is concerned everybody should be in prison for anything as long as it lines their pockets with large amounts of money. The courts are the same way attorneys make a killing on legal fees and judges and political cronies have lavish salaries and work environments all paid for by average tax paying Americans.
 
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NathanHale said:
Guns was never the original intent of the 2A. It was arms sufficient to throw off tyranny. The belief that it is about anything else is where the anti-gun crowd gains a foot-hold. It is like saying the 1st A was about quill pens and rudimentary printing presses. That is why it is the timeless “speech” and “Arms” is written and “The People” is everybody. Any law that abridges any Constitutional RIGHT, not privilege granted , should be defended to the letter.
Click to expand...


That is true. In the old days private companies and individuals owned state of the art (for the time period) fully armed warships. While I believe all firearms and common weapons should be available to the average person I do not think it would be wise to make Nuclear warheads or other weapons of mass destruction freely available. Unfortunately those types of weapons have been known to be available on the black market at some time or another (currently?)
 
alsaqr said:
They are walking around free for several reasons:

1. They are released early because of overcrowding of prisons.

2. The prosecutor entered into a plea deal for a reduced sentence.

3. They are cut loose by the parole board.

4, Some states have minimum sentences for violent crimes: Judges and prosecutors get around that. Recently a career Lawton, OK criminal was given a "20 year sentence" for a home invasion. Yep, ten years suspended, five years probation and five years to serve. The perp will be out in 2-3 years. The prosecutor failed to add felon in possession of a firearm to his charge sheet.

5. Many of the same "tough on crime" political hacks who demand long sentences, get stingy and refuse to build more prisons.

i worked for a couple years as a corrections officer and can say you don't want your daughter bringing one of these guys home.
Click to expand...

Our law enforcement has also gotten softer in the past 10 years and many preferentially pursue easier targets for arrest. This causes overcrowding of prisons with nonviolent offenders and creates a dragnet that catches minnows while letting real sharks escape consequences for years until they do something bad enough that the system is forced to finally deal with them.
 
grter said:
You would not want your daughter sitting on the adjacent bench next to one of these guys in a prison cell while waiting to see a judge for jaywalking in this new get tough on crime utopia you are proposing. You would want the jail space to be available for real criminals only. Cramming a whole bunch of non violent offenders in the same room with hardened violent offenders is a pretty stupid move if the goal is to decrease crime. They cannot build enough prisons to contain all these people if they tried. People who don't belong in prison should not be in prison and people who belong in prison should be in prison. As far as corrections is concerned everybody should be in prison for anything as long as it lines their pockets with large amounts of money. The courts are the same way attorneys make a killing on legal fees and judges and political cronies have lavish salaries and work environments all paid for by average tax paying Americans.
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So, you don't know much about prisons and how they operate, do ya...it's OK, most people don't. All statements below are for the Great State of Arizona only.
Your daughter will never ever be sitting next to a male inmate. Ever. Not even if the male inmate "identifies"as a female, trans, or a tulip. She will be, if an incarcerated inmate, only be housed with female inmates.
If you look at the law books you will find laws that make felons out of very ordinary people for laws we didn't even know exist. So if you want "real criminals only", better get to work with your elected officials to define what a "real criminal" is, to start with. Also, we seperate by crime if violent or not, and different custody levels based on many criteria, crime being one of them. It is highly unlikely a garden variety criminal would be housed with a murderer or rapist.
We don't have enough space? Dude we SHUT DOWN an ENTIRE unit, and are looking at closing Florence Complex completely - come see Central Unit when it gets turned in to a museum. I have stories from that place......we have plenty of space. The population is DROPPING. For example, use that link below and you can find in Jan 2018, the total population was 41,727, and in March of this year, with the most recent numbers, is 36,704.
People who don't belong in prison - same as above. Here's a great example - pot smokers. Now Arizona JUST decriminalized Maui Wowie for domestic use, but for a very long time it was illegal. So the most common thing I heard was "let out all the non violent dope smokers and we'll have lots of prison space!" This got so prevalent that ADCRR started tracking just how many we actually have, for pot only. Would you like to know? We'll go back to November of 2020, because when legalization passed, several DAs quit prosecuting. So, November of 2020, out of a total population of 38,141, we had...99 in for weed. Point three percent of the total population.
https://corrections.az.gov/sites/default/files/REPORTS/CAG/2020/cagnov-20.pdf
Corrections makes money? Not from where I am sitting - state departments SPEND money not make it, and the level of custody determines cost. IIRC, a level 1/2 is about $25K a year while a level 5 max is over $50K a year to house, feed, educate, (mandated), program, (mandated), provide health care, clothing, etc. T'ain't cheap at all. Now if you talk PRIVATE prisons, now the answer is yes - they lobby for harsher sentences for non violent crimes because lengthy stays for easy to manage inmates is what they like, makes good money for them off the state. Some states have realize prisons for profit are a bad move - we'll get there. Many of the private prisons in AZ are actually housing interstate compact inmates from Hawaii and California. They won't take anything above Level 3 medium, and they love SOs, because sex offenders tend to be both easier to manage and have longer sentences.
Attorneys DO make money on legal fees....the DEFENSE attorneys. The DA and those that work for the DA are on state paychecks. So the ones who are trying to put people IN prison are NOT the ones making bank. Judges - no idea, but you are right about one thing - the judge and the DA DO work for the same person - the governor.
Now that we covered all that, just so we can SLIDE this back to black powder in the news, the Yuma Territorial Prison had a famous black powder firearm in the news well over 100 years ago when they used their Gatling gun to fire at escaping inmates. They missed, the escapees were recaptured, and the gun is still on display in Yuma, or so I've been told.
Moderators, sorry, but sometimes I just gotta say something, being the guy behind the wire for almost 20 years.
 
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gtrgy888 said:
Our law enforcement has also gotten softer in the past 10 years and many preferentially pursue easier targets for arrest. This causes overcrowding of prisons with nonviolent offenders and creates a dragnet that catches minnows while letting real sharks escape consequences for years until they do something bad enough that the system is forced to finally deal with them.
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Again, for AZ;
Number one crime to be incarcerated for is - assault, 4,848. Violent.
Number 2 - Drug sales/Trafficking. 3,615. This is NOT drug use, seperate charge. These are the ones selling dope to your kids.
Number 3 - Robbery - 3,244
Number 4 - Murder - 2,887
Number 5 - Sex Offense, not to include rape, 2,667
Number 6 - drug possession, (all), 2,354. These the guys you want me to turn loose?
Number 7 - Burglary/criminal trespass. 2,131. You want these guys out? Burglary includes 2nd degree, burglary of an occupied structure and 1st degree, armed burglary, out the door they should go?
Number 8 - Auto theft. 1,787. We should reward them with being back on the streets again so they can take more of our hard earned money, with, in this state, most stolen cars going to chop shops or down to Mexico.
Number 9 - Weapons Offenses. 1,659. Hard to say, that covers a gamut, might be BS might not be, but with Arizona's excellent gun laws, (voted best in the nation for firearms freedom 6 or 7 years running by Guns and AMmo mag, it's not like California where you do time for a 30 round mag while the carjacker walks free.
Number 10 - Child Molestation. NOBODY wants these people back on the streets...nobody.

You get my point - you can say "let the non violent out", but there's a WHOLE lot more going on that a simple slogan.
My data link.
https://corrections.az.gov/sites/default/files/REPORTS/CAG/2021/cagmar-21.pdf
 
armoredman said:
Again, for AZ;
Number one crime to be incarcerated for is - assault, 4,848. Violent.
Number 2 - Drug sales/Trafficking. 3,615. This is NOT drug use, seperate charge. These are the ones selling dope to your kids.
Number 3 - Robbery - 3,244
Number 4 - Murder - 2,887
Number 5 - Sex Offense, not to include rape, 2,667
Number 6 - drug possession, (all), 2,354. These the guys you want me to turn loose?
Number 7 - Burglary/criminal trespass. 2,131. You want these guys out? Burglary includes 2nd degree, burglary of an occupied structure and 1st degree, armed burglary, out the door they should go?
Number 8 - Auto theft. 1,787. We should reward them with being back on the streets again so they can take more of our hard earned money, with, in this state, most stolen cars going to chop shops or down to Mexico.
Number 9 - Weapons Offenses. 1,659. Hard to say, that covers a gamut, might be BS might not be, but with Arizona's excellent gun laws, (voted best in the nation for firearms freedom 6 or 7 years running by Guns and AMmo mag, it's not like California where you do time for a 30 round mag while the carjacker walks free.
Number 10 - Child Molestation. NOBODY wants these people back on the streets...nobody.

You get my point - you can say "let the non violent out", but there's a WHOLE lot more going on that a simple slogan.
My data link.
https://corrections.az.gov/sites/default/files/REPORTS/CAG/2021/cagmar-21.pdf
Click to expand...

You misunderstand my point. I don’t want one of them turned loose. I want actual arrests of the worst criminal elements to be the focus. We saw all summer how the police stood down and watched violent assaults against citizens and property and then arrested people engaged in self defense because they knew those people would be safer and easier to arrest. It’s cowardice and it shows that contemporary police protocol is SOFT.
 
The folks that want to completely ban firearms, such as Carlson's "guest", will stop at nothing to convolute the conversation with such references to .50 caliber (supposedly BMG) suppressed firearms using possibly muzzleloaders. It reminds me of the California Senator/Congressman/woman talking about AR-15 rifles with a stock that goes up. They have no clue, but they will foment any supposed "danger" in their minds to completely disarm the American populace. Good luck: Gun sales are at an all time high, most all applying have passed a background check, and the Fed Gov is going to have a hard time reigning in any firearms that have a more than a 10 round magazine capacity.

And then they have to contend with firearms that are off the ATF grid. Keep your powder dry.
 
The people who are harmed the most are those the crap-talking politicians say they want to help. It is Orwellian right now. God bless us, every one.
 
gtrgy888 said:
It’s hilarious how they talked about a Pietta .36 as though it’s some kind of ideal assassin’s tool.
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I find that article amusing on more than one level. It shows how much harder is to obtain firearms in Europe compared to America - so Pietta .36 suddenly and unexpectedly became a desirable solution. Which leeds to the UK streets in the 21st century having a touch of American 19th century towns. :cool:
 
1861 said:
I find that article amusing on more than one level. It shows how much harder is to obtain firearms in Europe compared to America - so Pietta .36 suddenly and unexpectedly became a desirable solution. Which leeds to the UK streets in the 21st century having a touch of American 19th century towns. :cool:
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It's totally backwards compared to suppressors between most of Europe and the US. We have to pay a tax and submit paperwork while those in Europe pay and walk right out of the store with them.

And I have to agree, most criminals will look for a stolen pistol on the streets over buying a black powder firearm. Stolen Glocks, and Hi Points seem to be favored the most.
 
gtrgy888 said:
You misunderstand my point. I don’t want one of them turned loose. I want actual arrests of the worst criminal elements to be the focus. We saw all summer how the police stood down and watched violent assaults against citizens and property and then arrested people engaged in self defense because they knew those people would be safer and easier to arrest. It’s cowardice and it shows that contemporary police protocol is SOFT.
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There are hundreds of thousands of police in the U.S. and you watched very few "standing down." Before you run your mouth you need to know what you are talking about. As of today there have been 150 duty deaths in 2021. You aren't going to call those men and women cowards. Stop watching Cops and NCIS because you are not an expert on law enforcement and your posts make you look small.
 
So uh...my Pietta 1858 Army is good to go? :)
I haven't shot it yet and I'm already considering a centerfire conversion cylinder. The thought of rolling ammo like joints isn't very appealing if I'm frank.
 
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