“Carbine” Classes...?

A carbine is just a short rifle. While the M4 Carbine is officially one by military nomenclature, essentially all ARs including the M16 would qualify from a definition POV.

So they're not wrong.

Don't forget the pistol caliber carbines like the Rugers, now popular in IDPA,.USPSA and Steel Challenge. Pistol caliber lever action short rifles were not unknown in the more distant pass than WW 2.

I'm an old toot nowadays and I can keep it straight.

If I were to see an old warhorse like that in a class I am attending I would be sure the user had a clue how to shoot. Nice classic "short rifle" with a few stories to tell most likely.

Well, if we’re lucky, with age, comes wisdom.

JCooperfan1911 said:

I kind of shake my head at the naming of these as what the classes really are is AR15 classes.

I have 0 issues with that but it’s just curious. I’ve also heard the young guys on Reddit and the boards call all of their ARs “carbines” and it seems in 2021 the word “carbine” is now ubiquitous in meaning “AR15.” They’ll say “I got a new carbine” or “I saw a carbine at the store” and it is just another word for the AR now.

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In my "carbine" classes, we welcome all kinds of carbines, doesn't have to be an AR15.

JCooperfan1911 said:

But when I was coming up, THIS was a carbine:

View attachment 997883

Here is my 1943 Underwood USGI WW2 .30 U.S. Carbine, M1.

Pretty sure most of the guys with their AR15s would laugh out loud if I showed up at one of these so-called “Carbine Classes” with this old wooden warbird! Most probably wouldn’t even allow such an antiquated gun. I don’t know, I think it’s a fun little rifle and it suits a dinosaur like me pretty well.

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No, no. Please do take it to a class.

No reason that I can think of to not allow it.

I see all kinds of semi auto carbines in class.

I've actually taken multiple carbine classes, and the vast majority of shooters used the AR15 platform. A few of the classes were geared towards LEOs and military though. I have been in a couple classes when other platforms were present; AKs, AUGs, even an FAL.

You can use whatever you want for the most part except for a couple LEO classes I took part in. Sometimes it makes sense to keep the class platform specific as the drills; reloads, remedial action etc. are geared are geared towards the that specific weapon in some cases. Took a class once with a guy that showed up with a mini-14, with 3x9 optic. Not the right set-up for a defensive carbine class, so he struggled and no doubt didn't get the full benefit from the instruction.

The class my son teaches in N.Y. is called "Patrol Rifle" I'll have to ask him if he would "allow" something other than an AR

JCooperfan1911 said:

I never said they were wrong. I am saying that nowadays when someone says “carbine” we are now all supposed to think “AR15” as if that is the only carbine around.

IT’S NOT.

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When I hear "carbine," I actually think of short lever actions and I own four ARs. Luckily we don't all think alike or things would be rather boring.

I've seen AKs, ARs, FN PS90s, Ruger Mini-14s and SU-16s in class (which proceeded to break in half). The latter was replaced by the instructor's Marlin Camp Carbine.

There's one guy who shoots a Garand in matches. We help him police that brass! Another guy shot a lever action but was not skilled on the stroke and kept screwing it up.

Hahaha, Pretty sure op just likes to show of his gun. I believe this is the 4th thread he’s started on them in the last few months.
No disrespect OP they are fun to shoot,and I’d buy one over an AR in a second

I do agree with JCooper 1911, as I've got two M1 30 Caliber Carbines, and used one in Vietnam as well as the M-16 which had a 20" barrel, never thought that much about the M16 being a carbine with the 20" barrel but by the same token I've got an AR-15 with a 16" barrel and one with a 20" barrel. I've always referred to the 30 Caliber as being a carbines. Just the nature of the beast. BTW I've attended several training classes with the AR-15's at Front Sight, and there were SKS's as well as Mini-14's and 30's not to mention AK-47's. Now as a young man 60 years ago in the mid west, I hunted deer with a Winchester Model 94 with a 16" barrel, and everybody just referred to it as a rifle. Reckon, I'm going to have to refer to Webster's Dictionary and get the true meaning of a carbine. I do know Henry Firearms Company makes a .44 Magnum with a 16" barrel lever action that is noted to be a carbine, to which I recently acquired.

People are lazy.

The M4 Carbine (14.5") is decidedly shorter than the M16A4 (20") the latter not that much shorter than anything else in use in the 60s (which ran from 20 to 24").

People into competitive shooting are going to gravitate towards a common platform to achieve competition success.
And, for that 'game' some form of M4gery is likely going to be the primary answer.
After buying a carbine buffer, a carbine barrel, a carbine gas tube, etc., it's going to e near reflex to call the end result a "carbine."

There's a factor in that "all the cool kinds" say the similar. And another in the constant media smear of "AR" too.

I think youre likely to see more AR15's, because they are the "current" carbine and what most are wanting to use and are probably what most familiar with these days.

I think it would be fun just to mix them up and run what you brung any given day you might go. My old FR-8, Krag, Winny Trapper, etc, would fit that description just as well as one of my AR's to M1 Carbines.

I have one, but we call it the shoulder thumper.

Words change, welcome to the 21's century. It's not the ''gay 90's" any more...

JCooperfan1911 said:

Around here locally there are classes at shooting ranges labeled as “Carbine” classes.

I kind of shake my head at the naming of these as what the classes really are is AR15 classes. I have 0 issues with that but it’s just curious. I’ve also heard the young guys on Reddit and the boards call all of their ARs “carbines” and it seems in 2021 the word “carbine” is now ubiquitous in meaning “AR15.” They’ll say “I got a new carbine” or “I saw a carbine at the store” and it is just another word for the AR now.

But when I was coming up, THIS was a carbine:

View attachment 997883

Here is my 1943 Underwood USGI WW2 .30 U.S. Carbine, M1.

Pretty sure most of the guys with their AR15s would laugh out loud if I showed up at one of these so-called “Carbine Classes” with this old wooden warbird! Most probably wouldn’t even allow such an antiquated gun. I don’t know, I think it’s a fun little rifle and it suits a dinosaur like me pretty well.

Just the ramblings of an old coot who’s had too much Turkey for one night. Take care and god bless.

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My '43 Saginaw Steering is a carbine. My 16" Rossi 92 in .45 is a carbine. My Marlin Camp 9 is a carbine. My AR15 is an AR15.

I never said they were wrong. I am saying that nowadays when someone says “carbine” we are now all supposed to think “AR15” as if that is the only carbine around.

IT’S NOT.

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This thread is much ado about nothing.

AR-15s are one of the most common semi-automatic carbines in the US today in the hands of civilian, military, and LE users, so it stands to reason that they are commonly used at carbine classes, and there are many classes geared specifically to maximizing one’s potential with the design (either civilian AR-15 or military M4 Carbine), just as there are AK specific carbine classes, and general classes as well (at which you would absolutely be welcome to bring an M1 Carbine.)

Most of my rifles are carbines. Strangely enough, my Karabiner Modell 1931 has the longest barrel of any gun I currently own.

It’s asinine when folks complain about something before they even take opportunity to get firsthand insight into it. What’s the point of judging someone based on your assumption they would judge you? Seems a bit hypocritical, no?

I’ve been to something around 12-15 “carbine classes” in the last 22-23yrs. I’ve seen all manner of things in these courses. In the late ‘90s and early ‘00s there were a lot of SKS’s and Mini’s, some old Ruger Police Carbine, M1 Carbines, and a relative balance between AK’s and AR’s. Saw some M1a “Socom’s” when Springfield dropped them onto the market, and of course, when the Federal AWB dropped and the modern era of the civilian AR began, we’ve seen a tide shift to have most courses dominated by AR’s. Lots of folks run lots of things. I’ve seen a couple guys running a scout rifle - a stickshift - in a carbine course.

Maybe actually go to a class and see if you actually get treated like an outcast by actual asshiles before you go online and denigrate others for something that never actually happened.

I just had a "carbine day" at the range myself yesterday. Shot my Bushmaster Patrol rifle, my Rossie 92 in .357 mag, my SKS carbine, and my Hipoint 9mm carbine. All carbines with iron sites. All capable firearms, all a bunch of fun!

My K98k comes to mind, but my 43 Rock'ola with an IBM barrel is good to work with out to 200 yards.

From conception, the M1 carbine was so named, and not after a long length of rifle was shortened and standardized.

When I was growing up this meant a carbine to my family;



All it means to me is a short, handy rifle... which does describe many AR-15’s. IMHO the caliber, action type or stock type or appearance doesn’t prevent one from being a carbine.

Stay safe.