Random thought on possible magazine ban.
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lsudave
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Huh? I'm not seeing the connection between a hi-cap mag ban, a subcompact, and a carbine... if they want to limit capacity, they will likely go after the long guns too. Look at Canada, they limit "rifles" to 5 rds. You'd actually get higher capacity in a handgun.
Regarding a combo of guns, honestly an ability to share mags across platforms (not just caliber) seems the way to go. As much as I dislike the Glocks, they do make AR-type lowers that accept Glock mags. It's not my thing, but it makes sense.
Regarding a combo of guns, honestly an ability to share mags across platforms (not just caliber) seems the way to go. As much as I dislike the Glocks, they do make AR-type lowers that accept Glock mags. It's not my thing, but it makes sense.
nettlle
Contributing Member
The fight with Biden hasn't even started yet. And it will be long and ugly. With all due respect let's not hash out the"what if's" of something that hasn't even happened yet.
The connection is. You're limited on capacity. So you may as well run a small handgun.
The hipothical question is an if there is a limit. Will gun companies adapt pistol caliber carbine magazine wells to use the single stack pistol mags that are currently available?
Keltec pf9, s&w shield, Kimber micro etc.
There would be little reason for double stack if you only carry 8 or 10 rounds.
CURRENT BATFE RULES COMMENT PERIOD to the contrary. And other stuff in the pipeline waiting for the 2nd & 3rd flush. 4 months into a 4 yr term, nice to think everything's Ok but that doesn't mirror reality IMHO
Mark_Mark
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ATF don’t make laws
I don't expect a ban on anything, firearms or magazines, to be realistic at this time. The 1994 AWB came at a time when the guns banned were extremely rare. Even handguns holding more than 10 rounds of ammo were not the most commonly owned at the time. It made it easier to ban something that almost no one actually owned. And the law passed by just one vote in the House.
But because of the ban, and the fact that it dealt mostly with cosmetic features, those types of guns exploded in popularity. Even before the ban expired in 2004. Even during the ban MOST mags holding more than 10 rounds were readily available and legal on the used market. Cosmetic features were changed to make most of the banned weapons legal to sell. The ban banned almost nothing, and crime went down.
Today it will be a lot harder to find the votes to ban the most popular rifle sold in this country. There are currently about twice as many AR's in circulation as there are Marlin and Winchester 30-30's combined. And they've been made since the 1890's.
And if they do somehow find the votes with the makeup of federal courts along with the current Supreme Court I don't expect any ban passed to be found constitutional.
What I do expect is a push for UBC's and other requirements limiting who can legally purchase and own firearms and ammo.
But because of the ban, and the fact that it dealt mostly with cosmetic features, those types of guns exploded in popularity. Even before the ban expired in 2004. Even during the ban MOST mags holding more than 10 rounds were readily available and legal on the used market. Cosmetic features were changed to make most of the banned weapons legal to sell. The ban banned almost nothing, and crime went down.
Today it will be a lot harder to find the votes to ban the most popular rifle sold in this country. There are currently about twice as many AR's in circulation as there are Marlin and Winchester 30-30's combined. And they've been made since the 1890's.
And if they do somehow find the votes with the makeup of federal courts along with the current Supreme Court I don't expect any ban passed to be found constitutional.
What I do expect is a push for UBC's and other requirements limiting who can legally purchase and own firearms and ammo.
Never had an issue during the last ban. High cap mags were readily available but a tad more expensive. Now days 7+1 is all I need...Yes I get the whole 2A argument and so on but times are a changing thanks to the media and the sheep that follow. Everything that pops up on that phone is truth to them...
See above JMR40s for additional info as well. I remember flash hiders became breaks. I have one of those in an AR10 config. Actually like it better than a FH...
See above JMR40s for additional info as well. I remember flash hiders became breaks. I have one of those in an AR10 config. Actually like it better than a FH...
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mcb
Member
So since the last Federal magazine size limit there had been an explosion of cartridges the AR is chambered for with most of these new cartridges using the standard magazine. So what was an originally a 20 rd 556 magazine is now also a 7rd 450 BM magazine.
1942bull
Member
I think the better combo that a Shield and a PC Charger would be to employ a Security 9 with the PC Charger. They both use the same magazines. The ability to use the same magazines in both guns simplifies things. On the other hand, I am not worried about magazine bans. If they come, so be it. Hopefully they will not happen.
danez71
Member
Interesting question....
I'll guess No in the short-ish term.
Why? Because the magwell for the Ruger is still limited now. And I am a little surprised by that... that no one has made more for the Ruger.
And the G26 mag, for example, is pretty great and compact as-is now. (not subcompact, I realize)
If a mag ban stuck long term then, Yes, maybe. If the market demand is there.
I'd also assume more mag development to get the full 10 in a subcompact, like the shield plus models. If they reduced the capacity to 10 via a taller follower with longer spring, in theory the spring will last longer.
mcb
Member
Another random thought. Since the 2004 AWB sunset the 3D printer market has exploded and gone from a university research project and/or gimmicky toys to something that can produce functional magazines with relative ease and accessible costs. The spring being the only part not printable but that is easily made or sourced.
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
I haven't even thought of a PCC that could take a physically small magazine like in a Shield. That would pretty much preclude having a PCC with a magazine that goes into the grip and leave us with PCCs with mag wells in front of the grip.
Full size pistol magazines have been made in reduced capacity versions for decades. I figure gun makers wouldn't redesign their guns to take subcompact carry pistol mags when they can just sell the guns they already make with a lower capacity mag.
For instance, this 10 round Beretta 92 magazine made by Mec-Gar.
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
Yeah, but . . . it would seem only concealed carry folks want a small handgun. Lot's of folks still pick full size pistols (and revolvers) for target shooting, home defense, etc.
Zerodefect
member
If I felt like complying, I'd get a larger round (.45), not a smaller pistol.
There is that side also.
I already carry a small pistol for concealment.
My large handguns are revolvers. Which makes it a bit of a moot point for me.
Sistema1927
Member
It might be instructive to look at history.
Many of the "ban" threats are intended to placate a segment of the political spectrum, but have no teeth. For example, I purchased my first AR during the '94 "ban". Yes, it had no bayonet lug, and the barrel wasn't threaded (something I rectified after the sunset), but I had no problem whatsoever finding a number of pre-ban magazines with which to feed it. Yet, there are still people who think that ARs were "banned" during that 10 year time period.
Many of the "ban" threats are intended to placate a segment of the political spectrum, but have no teeth. For example, I purchased my first AR during the '94 "ban". Yes, it had no bayonet lug, and the barrel wasn't threaded (something I rectified after the sunset), but I had no problem whatsoever finding a number of pre-ban magazines with which to feed it. Yet, there are still people who think that ARs were "banned" during that 10 year time period.
twarr1
Member
As much as 2A people want to think so, gun-grabbers aren't idiots. Biden and Obama know their actions are driving record gun sales. The mag bans, feature bans, etc are all showboating for their voting base.
The *real* danger to the 2a is through total elimination of ammunition sales to the civilian population. This is happening NOW, through things like REACH.
There are thousands of ammunition and component retailers. Dozens of powder 'manufacturers', but less than a handful of ingredient (nitrocellulose) manufacturers.
If you can't make nitric acid because of EPA "rules", you can't make nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. - can't make smokeless powder - can't make ammunition - no ammunition; the scary guns become clubs. - Gun Control through the back door.
Some people will say "I'll make my own!" Umm, no you won't. You are legally prevented from purchasing things like atomized aluminum and antinomy trisulfide.The grabbers are severral steps ahead of you here...
The *real* danger to the 2a is through total elimination of ammunition sales to the civilian population. This is happening NOW, through things like REACH.
There are thousands of ammunition and component retailers. Dozens of powder 'manufacturers', but less than a handful of ingredient (nitrocellulose) manufacturers.
If you can't make nitric acid because of EPA "rules", you can't make nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. - can't make smokeless powder - can't make ammunition - no ammunition; the scary guns become clubs. - Gun Control through the back door.
Some people will say "I'll make my own!" Umm, no you won't. You are legally prevented from purchasing things like atomized aluminum and antinomy trisulfide.The grabbers are severral steps ahead of you here...
giggitygiggity
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I disagree... I’ve been watching and there is relentless fight just about every time “President” Mr. McGoo and the teleprompter meet. The teleprompter is mopping the floor with him. Oh, I just realized you were referencing guns; in that case, I do agree with you.
Rockrivr1
Member
You just have to look at some of the banning states like Massachusetts. They forced magazine limits to 10 rounds on handguns and all gun manufacturers that wanted to sell in MA had to make their guns follow these limitation rules. That's why many companies have 10 round mags available for guns that are high cap capable. Here's the rub though for the state. They couldn't outright ban magazines that were already in circulation. There's a ton of Constitutional issues with that. So they had to grandfather them. Makes a whole magazine "pre ban" market with elevated prices. Some gun manufactures like Glock got smart and there's no real way to tell if a mag is made before a certain date for them. A big FU to the AG's office. Innovation will always overcome.
As to new laws, I'm not going to get worked up. The Senate already has balked at the recent proposals that came out of the House. A lot of Senators that are D's, come from very pro gun states. If you can count on anything, you can count on a legislator wanting to get reelected over principles. That's why gun legislation isn't moving forward in the Senate. I'm highly doubtful that will change. Lot of pandering speeches, but that's it so far.
As to new laws, I'm not going to get worked up. The Senate already has balked at the recent proposals that came out of the House. A lot of Senators that are D's, come from very pro gun states. If you can count on anything, you can count on a legislator wanting to get reelected over principles. That's why gun legislation isn't moving forward in the Senate. I'm highly doubtful that will change. Lot of pandering speeches, but that's it so far.
Ignition Override
Member
What discussions —about gun components—have actually begun on the Floor of the US Senate which would cause this concern?
I’ve read zero news about such—-
Rockrivr1’s last paragraph explains political realities in a very “level-headed” style.
I’ve read zero news about such—-
Rockrivr1’s last paragraph explains political realities in a very “level-headed” style.
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CapnMac
Member
I have to respectively disagree here.
Magazines are complicated engineering projects unto themselves.
Any number of promising new firearms were undone by not enough engineering of their magazines.
While the construction appears, and can be, simple--bent sheet metal welded together, for instance--the angles, reinforcements, tolerances are very critical.
There's two sets of tolerances to cope with, too. One is the obvious ones within the thing itself, the other is the tolerances of the firearm. Many of those tolerances are in the thousandths. Look at all the "knock off" Carbine magazines out there. (Ok, some of that is still down to the expedient way Winchester never fully developed that magazine beyond being a hack of the .30 winchester self loader mag.)
A person could measure an existing mag all they wanted, and reproduce those exact dimensions and still not get a working magazine (see all the "iffy" mags out in circulation now).
Now, could a person model up a 3d print magazine and ave it work? Sure. Work well becomes a question. If a person were using most of the filament printers, they would need enough thickness to probably e single-stack. Which would need a new, custom, spring.
Springs are yet another one of those engineering marvels, too. They have to fit very specific dimensions, ave known, repeatable "rates" and also be able to be uniformly manufactured. A great deal of the history of firearms is tied to reliable springs.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
CapnMac
Member
LOL!
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