Ar 15 cons

Archie said:

I am not a fan of the AR for a number of reasons. Having so said;

The forward assist is to get the bolt fully closed with the cartridge ready to fire. One notes all other rifles have do-dads directly connected to the bolt - charging handles in the case of the M1 Garand and M14 rifles, AKs and all bolt action rifles. The original configuration of the AR had nothing. If the bolt didn't close for whatever reason - and they didn't - one was stuck. One did learn to slam the butt on the ground with the muzzle 'that way' and not impinging on the face, but that's about it.

The charging handle is located in the most effective place, both for operating the bolt and manufacture.

My largest criticism is the tiny round and the self-dirtying gas system. Plus they're too short for a spear and too flimsy for a club.

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I personally have never had a forward assist take a gun from a non-functional state to a functional state. I have on one or two occasions made the situation worst with a forward assist but never better. If the round does not go into battery, I am not going to try to force it with the forward assist. I am going to get rid of that round.

Should come with an ambi safety. That's my only complaint.

Ambi bolt release and mag release sure would be nice as well, but not as important.

briansmithwins said:

Controls are scattered all over the place and are not intuitive to an inexperienced shooter.

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You clearly have never been handed an SA80/L85--nothing is near any hand using the thing. Even with the L85AE, not even H&K was able to 100% prevent LBE from dumping the magazine w/o warning.

Bcwitt said:

The controls dictate using your weak hand to perform the operations that you want dexterity for. An AK is much faster.

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To work the magazine, you poke the button with right index finger while the left hand gets a new mag which you sweep into the mag well in one smooth motion (no rock-n-lock) and your mitt is right there to trip the bolt release.

Ok, maybe, just maybe, on a bench, perhaps. Out in the field, you have to give up your primary hand to work the magazine release and bang the mag out (you need the support hand to stay near the balance). Then, you have to grab the new mag, and wrestle it up into the notch and rock-n-lock it into place, to then have to rack the bolt handle back (and all the way--short stroking an AK under stress is all too easy), and then, only then, take up a firing grip again.

Charlie98 said:

and the AR will fall into obscurity.

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LoL. Been 56 years sliding into obscurity so far []

Bcwitt said:

An AK is easily operated & used w a single hand.

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On a bench, maybe. Or, maybe with a Krink.

I hate the charging handle and I am indifferent to the forward assist. All but one of mine are side chargers with reciprocating charging handles so I kill two birds with one stone on that. None of the other features or controls offend me.

Bcwitt said:

Thanks for the input. I never said I dont like them, just a few features I dislike. It is basically nessesary to own at least one of them in this country. The controls dictate using your weak hand to perform the operations that you want dexterity for. An AK is much faster.

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This is absolutely one of the silliest arguments I've seen in a very long time. Sounds like some seriously deficient training, rather than any deficiency of the AR platform.

mcb said:

Not sure if you're serious or not but I will laugh at your statement either way.

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CapnMac said:

LoL. Been 56 years sliding into obscurity so far

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I guess I'm showing my age... most folks my age understand sarcasm. Granted, these days, my comment could be taken as a serious viewpoint... so there is that.

I never had a problem in the military with my M16's (and I'm of the same era as 12Bravo above...) and now with my purpose built AR's. I've found that you adapt to what you have in front of you, eventually. My AR is far easier to operate than, say, my M1a or my Garand. As far as single-arm utility... nothing is easy to work with one-handed. Jeepers, try running a Garand one-handed!

I’m not an AR guy, mostly for Ergos but they’re reliable, well designed weapons when used properly. Good mags are good mags, the forward assist is quite useful in a lot of situations, the bolt catch is easy to find and manipulate, mag release is conveniently located, charging handle while not in a “normal” location is good for ambi purposes and the fact that it doesn’t reciprocate with the bolt means there’s not a moving part sticking out of the gun to get caught on something.

Honestly there aren’t a ton of cons with an AR.

I think the basis for most cons with any of them, is more a lack of familiarity and experience with whatever is being complained about, more than anything else.

Bcwitt said:

Thanks for the input. I never said I dont like them, just a few features I dislike. It is basically nessesary to own at least one of them in this country. The controls dictate using your weak hand to perform the operations that you want dexterity for. An AK is much faster.

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The idea being, I think, is that your strong hand (if you’re a righty) is for holding the gun and pulling the trigger. Sort of a “never take your firing hand off the gun” so you can shoot immediately after loading. Again that’s just speculation.

Charlie98 said:

The AR is just a passing fad, anyway. Once the mall ninjas get tired of them, they will move on to the Next Best Thing, and the AR will fall into obscurity.

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The new fad is the 6.5 Creedmore.

trackskippy said:

I think the basis for most cons with any of them, is more a lack of familiarity and experience with whatever is being complained about, more than anything else.

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^^^^^^^ THIS!
I am a southpaw and as one I never saw the need for a ambidextrous safety. I just learned to adapt like anything else that life throws at you. It is just as easy to flip the safety with your index finger as it is with someone who is right handed and use a thumb. Familiarty and adaptability are of the utmost importance. I own a python and a S&W 686 and prefer the 686 to the colt python simply because it is easier for me as a south paw to operate the cylinder release button on the 686 than the colt. What most shooters use their thumbs for on a firearm I use my index finger, not just for picking my nose or scratching my frontal lobe.

Yep the AR is such a crappy design that most "modern" rifles copy it's layout.

I suspect some of the naysayers simply have alack of training on the AR type rifle.

It has excellent ergonomics

Early ones had a different charging handle, and no forward assist.

1960's era pentagon Army brass, trained on pushing the Garand handle forward, demanded the forward assist.

Eugene Stoner said it wasn't needed, and the USAF M16's didn't have them.

prototype


early one, not lack of fwd assist, and not fence around mag release.

Bcwitt said:

Anyone else find the fwd assist, mag catch, hold open, mag well & ****** GI magazines very annoying? I like the AR, not doubt. But they could have made a better magazine system, & the charging handle is probably the worst ever.

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Name a better firearm for comparison.

Seems like it's a 1911 type thing. If you trained with that, the other comes easier.
Both have pretty solid engineering. Both require proper training.
Seems like anyway. It's much harder to break bad habits than not.
Get some proper training, try it again. Practice does not make perfect.
Perfect practice helps though.

Bcwitt said:

Anyone else find the fwd assist, mag catch, hold open, mag well & ****** GI magazines very annoying?

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Nope. Far more reasons (more pros than cons) the M16/AR15 platform has been (in its various iterations) the main battle rifle for our country the past 55 years or so.... far longer than any other rifle has ever served.

But kudos to the OP for at least returning to his thread the next day (seems as though more'n a few thread-starters lately haven't posted in their own threads after they realized not everyone was jumping onboard to agree with them).

Even though the OP did return to seemingly make an effort to turn this into an AR vs. AK thread...

daniel craig said:

Sort of a “never take your firing hand off the gun” so you can shoot immediately after loading.

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You can still fire a shot WHILE reloading if youve got a round in the pipe.

Ive never been in combat, but i can see the advantages of not taking your firing/control hand out of position.

No gun is perfect but I've been shooting an AR since 1985 and haven't found anything more perfect. If I could only own one gun, it would be a 16" AR for pure versatility.

MarshallDodge said:

No gun is perfect but I've been shooting an AR since 1985 and haven't found anything more perfect. If I could only own one gun, it would be a 16" AR for pure versatility.

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Same here

I am with @LoonWulf on this one, I can build them all day then shoot them about 15 minutes.
I love to get them accurate to where you can pop golf balls at 200 yards every shot, OR for home defense
rapid close combat & maneuver easily.
Accessories is what lures us in, the rifle alone may cost like $1,500, but you can double that easily with
the latest gadget.
It is what it is.
I like em as is when I get em, then I love em when I am finished =Almost the perfect rifle. Where have I heard that?
@Bcwitt is just playing Rope A Dope with us.

Bcwitt said:

It is my belief that an AK magazine is far superior to a GI AR magazine. Both in ruggedness & reliability. Are we on fairly strong ground there?

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Why is it better? The rock to lock of the AK magazine is not as fumble proof as the simple straight insertion of the STANAG magazine. The steel AK magazine is noticeable heavier, even before you put heavier ammunition in it, than the aluminum STANAG magazine. Not seeing an advantage to the AK magazine.