Midway Surplus M1 Carbine

JCooperfan1911 said:

Anyone looking for a deal is fooling themselves.

M1 Carbines are in incredible demand, as are most guns in general. Pricing on them has absolutely SKYROCKETED in the past year. If these are priced under $1500 I’ll be shocked.

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Look at what people are asking (and getting) for Iver Johnson, Auto Ordnance, and 2nd Gen Universal carbines- youre not going to find any commercial gun under a grand these days. SMH.

JCooperfan1911 said:

Pricing on them has absolutely SKYROCKETED in the past year.

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Well, really, over the last 5 years.
Only in the last 20-24 months have we seen BlueSky and FedOrd junkers actually sell at the $1300 pricetags (if only for the small production receiver stamps).

Now, in the last year, we have seen the "base" prices rise into the four digit arena--used to be haunting the Carbine forums and watching for sales, you could still get $800 and $900 Carbines (and quite good ones). But, those have sold themselves out over the last year, and inflation has pushed the prices up.

The days of spending $400 to get a very nice, all-correct Inland are back in the mid 90s.

Its especially interesting to see Universal Gen 2 and Gen 3's going for prices comparable to USGI M1 Carbines only a few years ago.
Very glad I bought my 1st Gen when they were still in the $500 dollar range.

CapnMac said:

Well, really, over the last 5 years.
Only in the last 20-24 months have we seen BlueSky and FedOrd junkers actually sell at the $1300 pricetags (if only for the small production receiver stamps).

Now, in the last year, we have seen the "base" prices rise into the four digit arena--used to be haunting the Carbine forums and watching for sales, you could still get $800 and $900 Carbines (and quite good ones). But, those have sold themselves out over the last year, and inflation has pushed the prices up.

The days of spending $400 to get a very nice, all-correct Inland are back in the mid 90s.

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There’s also a huge proliferation of faked parts for carbines as everyone and their brother wants a so-called “correct” carbine with all the early parts and features.

Truth is, the vast majority of carbines went through arsenal refurbs and had new parts like bayonet lug barrel bands and adjustable sights added. But as these are seen as post-WW2 (even though they technically aren’t) the collectors aren’t as interested in them.

So you’ve got countless carbines out there that have had unknowable numbers of faked early parts put on them and folks are getting scammed left and right thinking they’re getting all original correct guns which like 90% or more of the time is NOT TRUE.

It’s just an absolute mess and M1 carbine collecting is an utter minefield. Mine is a mismatched, post-war refit and I LIKE IT THAT WAY. It tells me it probably hasn’t been messed with much if at all since it left government service. IMHO the entire philosophy of these guns should shift so that these arsenal refitted examples are considered totally valid as they are the last configuration the guns were in when they were under U.S. military service.

But people are short sighted and ignorant of these kinds of things and every dillweed who’s seen Saving Private Ryan only wants a “Correct” carbine which is in virtually every case about as INCORRECT as you can get and that was tampered with and molested by some random in his basement.

Rant off.

About the closest youre going to get to any kind of provenance would be one of the earlier DCM guns with paperwork.

Same goes for the M1's, which also suffer from the same problem.

twarr1 said:

I'd be highly suspicious of one with "matching numbers" Matching what? The M1 Carbines were mis-matched when they came out of the factories. I don't see that a trip through the arsenal once to replace worn/broken parts and add a bayonet lug should devalue then a whole lot. That said, the ones that have been sold, resold, cut up, "refurbished", sporterized, resold again, etc, are near worthless to me.
I recently saw one on one of the gun auctions with gold-plated parts. (Sigh)
It'll be interesting to see what comes of this latest Italian stash. Hopefully it's true they've been in storage since the '50's.

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twarr1 said:

I'd be highly suspicious of one with "matching numbers" Matching what? The M1 Carbines were mis-matched when they came out of the factories. I don't see that a trip through the arsenal once to replace worn/broken parts and add a bayonet lug should devalue then a whole lot. That said, the ones that have been sold, resold, cut up, "refurbished", sporterized, resold again, etc, are near worthless to me.
I recently saw one on one of the gun auctions with gold-plated parts. (Sigh)
It'll be interesting to see what comes of this latest Italian stash. Hopefully it's true they've been in storage since the '50's.

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I agree it should be interesting to see what Midway has scrounged up together.
"Matching num" is a very good marketing ploy, and will increase interest in the ever growing list of people wanting a crack at those. We shall see what comes of it.

At least we know they will pick up the phone, if you disagree with the rate. Mags will be an issue to find.

czhen said:

At least we know they will pick up the phone, if you disagree with the rate. Mags will be an issue to find.

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CDNN and J&G Sales has some magazines right now.

I have an IBM made M1 Carbine reimported from South Korea in the late 1980s by Blue Sky. I bought it as a souvenir of a programing project I finished in 1990 and I paid whooping $225 for it.

The barrel and receiver are marked IBM. It has the rough economical utilitarian stamped and brazed trigger housing that IBM favored. The flat topped bolt may still be original. But that's about it.

It has all the Korean War era updates: adjustable rear sight, three-nib magazine catch, flip safety, barrel band with bayonet lug.

And it has a Japanese Howa military style stock: M2 pot belly forearm in a rough, dull, non-reflective finish; obviously not a slim and smooth shiny mirror finished US issue stock.

In other words, my Frankencarbine is a perfect match for what a US or UN ally would be carrying in the Korean War theater. Because other than the importer mark, it is the way it was when put in reserve after last service in the hot spot of the Cold War.

I would not try to find an original 1943 L sight, two nib mag catch, push button safety, early barrel band, original IBM issue American style stock. THAT would make it an inauthentic fake.

And the barrel is stamped with the Blue Sky import mark, meaning that to zero the rear sight I have to click it two full hashmarks to the left, that is always good for a few snickers.

Matching numbers?
The receivers had serial numbers.
Other parts had manufacturer codes.
There were carbine manufacturers who made receivers and assembled and tested completed guns. But major parts even barrels and bolts could come from any carbine maker who had extras when another maker was running low. Plus other gun makers like Marlin and AutoOrdnance were subcontracted to make various small parts for the carbine makers.

Larry Ruth spent a lot of time tracking down details on the M1 Carbine.His books are detailed and fascinating to me.

Speedo66 said:

Have any of those extremely used looking cord wood stacked ones from Ethiopia hit the market yet?

Edit: Just checked Royal Tiger's site, they're looking for $1300+ for those, and they looked pretty beat.

Hand select were $2000.

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Hit the market yet? I bought two nearly a year ago. Yes, they're extremely used and that's what I like about them. I bought two of the "base" models ($899 ea.), and got an Inland and a Standard Products, and after cleaning up the stocks, they really don't look bad at all.

#1 is the Inland and #3 is the Standard Product-



35W

i bought my winchester rearsenaled m-1 carbine with extra items(bayonets-1080 rounds) years ago for 700.00, its a fine shooter.

I wonder about my ‘43 Underwood, purchased from a brother officer in 1972.

He was a Pacific Theater veteran with the Navy Seabees, and I believe, but not sure, he took it home with him.

It has all the early features, push safety, high wood, I shaped oiler cut, no bayonet mount, and everything else seems original to that era except the rear sight, which is the later adjustable one. I wonder if he changed it himself, because an arsenal rebuild would have changed much more.

Sadly, he’s not still around to ask, but that purchase, which included WWII dated ammo which I still have, was probably the best $75 I’ve spent. I suppose I should have bought the pristine Nambu he offered, too.

MosinT53Hunter said:

CDNN and J&G Sales has some magazines right now.

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Thank you I will check them up.

czhen said:

At least we know they will pick up the phone, if you disagree with the rate. Mags will be an issue to find.

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AIM Surplus also has the 15 and 30 round Korean Carbine mags in stock, these work great. $12 + $14 respectively.

https://aimsurplus.com/m1-carbine-30cal-30rd-magazine/

Speedo66 said:

AIM Surplus also has the 15 and 30 round Korean Carbine mags in stock, these work great. $12 + $14 respectively.

https://aimsurplus.com/m1-carbine-30cal-30rd-magazine/

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Smoking deal! Its great they were able to get them in again at that price!

When CMP run out of M1 carbines years ago, new house, college and my last kid was born.
So adding a new toy was a solid I can't. However, had in them in my dream list. The only seen around were last batch Universal with known bad rep.
Being myself a generation of addicted to Rifleman a and Sargent Sanders having a carbine is pending artifact.
Before living this realm forever Iwill redraw my smile over my history books and irons with one for sure.

Speedo66 said:

It has all the early features, push safety, high wood, I shaped oiler cut, no bayonet mount, and everything else seems original to that era except the rear sight, which is the later adjustable one. I wonder if he changed it himself, because an arsenal rebuild would have changed much more.

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Recently a NPM is similar condition sold at auction for $2700.

People use "Arsenal" but many of these just went to Brigade or Regiment armorers when rotated through the Issue. Those armorers had varying instructions on what to replace on working arms. Especially if there was pressure to get arms ready for Replacements. So, it might have been a wartime sight, rather than an add-on.
Now, in 1946, in the Stand down, millions of arms went to Corps and Army HQ for inspection refurb and the like. They were generally taken to bits and rebuilt to the then current specification. Then slathered in cosmoline and packed away--to be drug out in 1950.

If you have a USGI carbine consider yourself lucky. If you have one that will hold 4 MOA consider yourself even luckier. I've watched a decent example go from around $700 on the CMP forum to $1200 in a few years. When they do pop up they're usually gone in a matter of minutes, not hours.

I have a 43 Inland with a Winchester barrel. Totally rebuilt at least once. When I got it the stock was after market but the hardware was in good condition. Looked like a project somebody had been working on as it was freshly parkerized.

My only concern with buying any USGI today is the barrel condition. I had one that was used up and sold it. The one I have now is a fine shooter with a lightly used barrel. How do I know? A 12" plate at 200 yds is easy to ring. I would demand a muzzle erosion gauge measurement from a seller and have them document that before I purchased. A 3.0 measurement is a wall hanger 9 times out of 10. If a person could shoot the rifle they purchase first that would be the real test, but of course you can't do that so at least get the next best thing.

CoalTrain49 said:

If you have a USGI carbine consider yourself lucky. If you have one that will hold 4 MOA consider yourself even luckier. I've watched a decent example go from around $700 on the CMP forum to $1200 in a few years. When they do pop up they're usually gone in a matter of minutes, not hours.

I have a 43 Inland with a Winchester barrel. Totally rebuilt at least once. When I got it the stock was after market but the hardware was in good condition. Looked like a project somebody had been working on as it was freshly parkerized.

My only concern with buying any USGI today is the barrel condition. I had one that was used up and sold it. The one I have now is a fine shooter with a lightly used barrel. How do I know? A 12" plate at 200 yds is easy to ring. I would demand a muzzle erosion gauge measurement from a seller and have them document that before I purchased. A 3.0 measurement is a wall hanger 9 times out of 10. If a person could shoot the rifle they purchase first that would be the real test, but of course you can't do that so at least get the next best thing.

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So, what if I have a USGI Inland barreled receiver, but someone in the past tried to scope it, and cut off the original barrel, and soldered on a Winchester 77-- 22.lr barrel in an attempt in making it a 5.7 Johnson?
Still considered lucky? Just wondering....

Ive owned 5 GI carbines and currently have 3. All of them were upgraded at some point. All of them were in pretty good shape when I got them, but all also required some work to get them to be "shooters".

All had the rear sights replaced and a bayo mount up front. Three of them did not have the front sight rezeroed to the rear sights when that was done and I had to do that.

All of the rear sights were knocked out of their staking, and all were in various states of looseness. I restaked them, and that made things a lot better. When they are properly staked, they do not appear to be centered on the gun. Ive always wondered if people knocked them over thinking they were off and that's why they were loose. Mine all seemed to zero right up when in the original staking.

I have three with round bolts, and two that still have a flat bolt. All of them needed to be rebuilt. New extractor and ejector and springs. All got a new recoil spring too while I was at it.

Two of my guns had the upgraded mag release, all of them have the upgraded safety.

GI mags were a major issue, and a big problem for reliability. I got a number of them with the guns when I got them, and only a couple made it to the range mag bag. 99% of the time there is a stoppage, its one of those mags that's in the gun when it happens.

The Korean mags that are available now are the way to go. Reasonably priced, some come with a hold open follower, and all seem to be 99.9% for function. That goes for the 15 and 30 rounders.

Once I got everything squared away, reliability went way up, and they all seem to shoot well, and all about or better than 3-4 moa. The only thing that still drives me nuts with them is, they will throw brass in a random and sporadic 360* arc. One might fall to your right, right at your feet, the next is at 8 o'clock, 15 feet away, then the next one 10 feet right in front of you. Drives me nuts. I reload for them, and 30 Carbine brass isn't the cheapest.


If you do pick one up, take a look at the CMP's website. That have a lot of good info over there on them, and were a big help at trying to get things tweaked for me.

Theres a lot of good info around the web as well if you get to looking around, and can help you figure out just what you might have.

Im a shooter and not a collector. "Shooting accumulator" is probably a better description. Im always looking for a decent "original" for a shooter, and Im not too worried about what I have as far as a collector goes. Like the M1's, "most" are not 100% matching as far as "maker" parts go. There seem to be a lot of people who think that if all the parts match, maker wise, they have a "correct" gun. I think the truth is just the opposite, but, whatever.

I will tell you if you have any M1, and probably Carbine parts as well laying around, you might be sitting on a gold mine. I sold off a bunch of M1 parts 4 or 5 years ago on eBay that I had accumulated over the years that were sitting in a box and made a killing. Things I paid $5, $10, $20 for at gun shows over the years were going for $100 or more. I sold one front handguard that I paid $10 for (still had the sticker from the show on it), for $200! Some people are straight up nuts! But that's OK too.
.

Wow, you guys have me thinking hard about selling my CMP purchased Inland carbine in an M2 stock! I did not realize that they had appreciated that much.

bernie said:

Wow, you guys have me thinking hard about selling

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Well, if you do, offer it here in the Trading Post first.