“Any Western hunter” cannot take advantage of the marginally improved ballistics of the short, fat, dumpy 270s. And that is because those advantages occur at distances at which the vast and overwhelming majority of hunters cannot achieve reliable kills. While you may claim to drop elk regularly at 700 odd yards or so, in the world outside the Internet, the number of people that can make ethical kills beyond 300 yards is tiny. The fact is that the 270 Win already provides ballistics in excess of the abilities of the vast and overwhelming majority of hunters and that the paltry advantages of a short action over a standard action may be relevant to a highly competitive F Class target shooter but are utterly irrelevant to the vast and overwhelming majority of hunters.
Not at the distances that the vast and overwhelming majority of hunters can make ethical kills. That’s the fact you keep ignoring.
We are in total agreement about the shooting capabilities of the “average” hunter and ethical distances. And there are a couple of points I would like to re emphasize.
How are hunters measuring the distance from themselves and the game they are shooting?. Modern technology has brought affordable and portable range finders, is anyone using them in the field before they shoot? The further the distance, the greater the bullet drop.The greater the bullet, the more critical the correct elevation estimate, and whether the rifle is actually zero's for that range.
I only have my 308 Win trajectories memorized, but from 100 yards, I would go 2 MOA to two hundred yards, then add on 3 MOA for a 300 yard zero. So my bullet is dropping four inches at 200 yards, and 6 inches at 300 yards. And then, going from 300 yards to 500 yards is 8 more MOA, or 40 inches of drop. That is a lot. From 300 to 600 is 12 MOA, which is 72 inches of drop. From 500 to 600 yards the bullet is dropping 32 inches and things don’t get better as the distance grows.
Before I took this rifle to CMP Talladega with its newly attached scope and I used a chunk of pallet to extend the trigger pull distance on the stock. That black spot is a nail hole from the original pallet.
I wanted to check that my scope was perpendicular to the bore, and that scope was a ¼ MOA clicks. The scope was not ¼ click, based on this and actual shooting at Talladega, the thing is .375 MOA per click. This is something you have to verify by shooting the thing on paper.
I have been told by buds with their super flat shooting cartridges that they need 31 MOA from 100 yards to 1000 yards. It is my recollection that I needed around 24 MOA or more, to go from 600 yards to 1000 yards with a 308 Win, which is about 240 inches of drop from 600 to 1000. That is twenty feet of drop for 400 yards of distance. Added from 100 yards, there is about 30 feet of drop for a 308 Win going from 100 to 1000 yards. Now I may have made some math errors, but the point is, these ridiculous distances promoted in these product roll outs assume the shooter has perfect range estimates, and, has zero’s at the distances he will be shooting. And I am quite sure, none of these assumptions are true.
Book values will more or less get you on paper at distance, but it ain’t always going to happen. The black at 600 yards is 36 inches, at 1000 it is 44 inches. That corresponds to a lot of an animal. I consider the lethal zone of big animals to be pie pan in size, not 36 inches or 44 inches of distance. It is sure hubris to think the first shot out of a rifle will hit a pie pan at 700 or more yards, because you have book value elevation values. Experienced shooters frequently change sights, buy new toys, etc, and they will be on paper at 600 and 1000 yards with a first shot most of the time. New shooters, it can be gruesome. Many times we have clustered behind a new shooter, or a Marksman level shooter at distance, trying to see the bullet trace and determine if the bullet is going left, or right, or way in front of the berm.
And, people mess up their elevation adjustments. I recall one 1000 yard match I shot in at Camp Perry, I had been using my M1a (MOA clicks with a ½ MOA aperture) for two weeks, and got on a scratch 1000 yard team. I rolled on the 1000 yard elevation on the Warner rear sight of my match rifle, but I forgot the Warner sights were ¼ MOA, not MOA, and so my first sighting shots probably hit between the 300 and 200 yard line!
Book values are only good for getting on paper with an 8 square foot target, or a 10 foot square target. Only extraordinary luck will get the shooter in the ten ring of the 2 MOA NRA target, first shot, with a non zero’d rifle beyond 300 yards. And who has a range with 400, 500, 600, 700. 800 yard targets to establish zero’s?
And then, another assumption is that the bullet acts as the manufacturer claims it will. I have already discussed bullet tumbling. That was a surprise. You only find that out by shooting on paper at distance. As for ballistic coefficients, I came to the conclusion that extremely high ballistic coefficients are more advertizing than reality. It is in the manufacturer’s financial interest to bump up their numbers. I saw this with the introduction of every new wonder bullet, someone would buy the things, claim great things on the first outing, but later, would be back to same old, same old. Usually the new bullet was better in some aspect, but not as revolutionary as claimed, and often turned out to be jump sensitive. So three matches in, the bullets were all over the place on target. It is true that sub 30 caliber bullets have much higher ballistic coefficients than what I was using in my 308 Win, but, claims of 0.505 versus 0.460, I never saw the difference. And, you got to push the bullet to get the advantage claimed, and that may not happen. I was pushing my 150 grain 270 Win bullets to the in print velocity claims, and getting blown primers. Velocity claims are as optimistic as the coefficient claims.
And then, even with a range finder, you don't know the bullet drift at distance. Rifle shooting matches, you get a sighter period, sometimes the shooter uses almost his entire shooting time trying to hit the target, never mind get in the middle. Hunters don't get sighter shots, the first shot, and the first hit, are what counts. It is hubris to claim that a hunter is always going to hit a pie pan sized target first time, every time, out to 700 yards.
The G&A article I read claimed that the ballistic coefficient of these heavy 277 bullets kept the velocity up enough that the bullets would expand at 700 yards. But, offered no proof of this claim. The author had to have been given calculated values provided by Winchester. And I am going to claim Winchester, probably used calculated 700 yard values based on 300 yard trajectories. I am quite certain Winchester has not set up blocks of ballistic gelatin at 700 yards and tested whether to see if their bullets expanded at that distance. Modern cup and core bullets do not expand when the velocities drop to 1800 fps, so these long range hunters are using the equivalent of FMJ bullets on game, which is unethical. Just poking a small hole in an animal, and having it run off to die a suffering death, is unethical. Metal gongs, paper targets don’t feel pain. Animals do feel pain, and experience fear. I am sure the long range types don’t care and treat animals as no different from inanimate targets.
