Anyone build a "other" ar-15?

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troy fairweather

troy fairweather

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Really thinking of building a other ar15 seems guys around here are building them and even a few shops are selling them.

2 things I'm not sure on, can a lower that was sold as a lower and not a rifle/pistol be used.
The other is The pistol brace, it's seems up in the air if there going to ban them. I could just buy a cheap one and it banned not use it.

I can get a 12" 6 arc barrel for a decent price, bca has bcg's for $130.
 
Another AR-15, or an 'Other' AR-15?
Lowers should always be transferred as 'receiver' unless otherwise specified by the buyer. I always specify 'receiver'.
If braces are banned, pull it off and put a piece of foam on the buffer tube and shoot it with the tube against the cheek, but not on the shoulder. (because that would be illegal, of course)
 
entropy said:
Another AR-15, or an 'Other' AR-15?
Lowers should always be transferred as 'receiver' unless otherwise specified by the buyer. I always specify 'receiver'.
If braces are banned, pull it off and put a piece of foam on the buffer tube and shoot it with the tube against the cheek, but not on the shoulder. (because that would be illegal, of course)
Click to expand...
Ya other, that's what I figured about the brace. I need to read up one them and what tube to use.
 
A lower is not a rifle or a pistol until an upper is put on it. If first built as a rifle, it is always a rifle. If built as a pistol, it can be converted to a rifle and then back to a pistol.
Build it as a pistol with an arm brace. If the laws change and the arm braces are made illegal, just go wit a straight buffer tube. If AR pistols are made illegal, then convert it to a rifle.
CA996BAB-B786-473A-84D9-9BA25ECC3465.jpeg 0CC7E35C-C0AD-4DDB-9585-6BC45BA9CA41.jpeg
 
GunnyUSMC said:
Build it as a pistol with an arm brace. If the laws change and the arm braces are made illegal, just go wit a straight buffer tube. If AR pistols are made illegal, then convert it to a rifle.
Click to expand...

Or just send off a form 1 and once you get it back approved, put a stock on it.
 
GunnyUSMC said:
A lower is not a rifle or a pistol until an upper is put on it. If first built as a rifle, it is always a rifle. If built as a pistol, it can be converted to a rifle and then back to a pistol.
Build it as a pistol with an arm brace. If the laws change and the arm braces are made illegal, just go wit a straight buffer tube. If AR pistols are made illegal, then convert it to a rifle.
View attachment 1004602 View attachment 1004603
Click to expand...
That's what I thought,this is just so I can have normal Features on a gun. I am debating if going with a 12" barrel but may play it safe and get a 16" if I have to ever change it back.
 
A receiver taken in or sold by an FFL, not chambered, is transferred as “other” in box 24, Section C of the FTR Form 4473.

Not to be confused with a “Firearm,” or “Any Other Weapon.”

With a short barrel and a brace, a stripped receiver becomes a title 1 pistol. Add a shoulder stock and any barrel at all, and it becomes a rifle - if it is over 16”, it’s a Title 1 rifle, if it’s under 16”, it becomes an NFA regulated Short Barreled Rifle.

If it’s built first as a Title 1 pistol, it can be converted to a rifle configuration (title 1 or SBR) and still forever onward be reverted back to a pistol configuration.

If it’s first built as a rifle, SBR or Title 1, it can never legally be converted to a pistol configuration. It could ONLY become a Weapon Made From a Rifle, or AOW, but never a “pistol.”
 
Varminterror said:
A receiver taken in or sold by an FFL, not chambered, is transferred as “other” in box 24, Section C of the FTR Form 4473.

Not to be confused with a “Firearm,” or “Any Other Weapon.”

With a short barrel and a brace, a stripped receiver becomes a title 1 pistol. Add a shoulder stock and any barrel at all, and it becomes a rifle - if it is over 16”, it’s a Title 1 rifle, if it’s under 16”, it becomes an NFA regulated Short Barreled Rifle.

If it’s built first as a Title 1 pistol, it can be converted to a rifle configuration (title 1 or SBR) and still forever onward be reverted back to a pistol configuration.

If it’s first built as a rifle, SBR or Title 1, it can never legally be converted to a pistol configuration. It could ONLY become a Weapon Made From a Rifle, or AOW, but never a “pistol.”
Click to expand...

But if the ar pistol has a foregrip then it's a other. One has to be put together in the proper order to not break the law here.
 
RedlegRick said:
No, we can't, not in the People's Republic of New York. SBRs and Class III are denied to us here.
Edited to add, and no pistols with a magazine well in front of the trigger and a fifty ounce total weight limit as well.
Click to expand...

So an AR pistol is a no go there, brace or no brace already?

troy fairweather said:
But if the ar pistol has a foregrip then it's a other. One has to be put together in the proper order to not break the law here.
Click to expand...

That would be an AOW and need a form 1, that if the above is correct, is a no go too, in NY.

“ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.
To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” “

https://www.atf.gov/file/97256/download

Same form and cost to make an AOW as an SBR.
 
Last edited:
jmorris said:
So an AR pistol is a no go there, brace or no brace already?



That would be an AOW and need a form 1, that if the above is correct, is a no go too, in NY.

“ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.
To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” “

https://www.atf.gov/file/97256/download

Same form and cost to make an AOW as an SBR.
Click to expand...
It's a other just like a shockwave, it was never a rifle or pistol so it's a other.
 
The short answer is that an “other firearm” is one that is designed to be fired with 2 hands, does not have a stock and has an overall length that exceeds 26″. Basically, according to the definition set forth by the ATF it is not a pistol, not a rifle and not under the jurisdiction of the NFA therefore it classifies as an “other firearm.” The caliber and type of projectile is not factored into the classification. This classification is not new but has become more popular as new “other firearm” models like the Modern Materiel
 
Adding a VFG adds a wrinkle (IIRC).
AOW makes it a Title II, not simply "other."
Shockwaye was unrifled, too, along with being a major flop.

Also, our "friends" at ATFE have just introduced a potential Rule Change which has a very goofy calculation sheet (11 pages of the 77 page Rule Change) which might limit OAL for pistols if allowed to stand. This proposed Rule Change is presently open for Public Comment (and you ought take the effort to comment)

There's a tread on the Rule Change in General that is worth visiting.
 
troy fairweather said:
This will be a other, with a foregrip. So has to be over 26" have a foregrip and no stock.
Click to expand...

Ah, gotcha... so YES to be confused with a “Firearm”....

Blogs have started calling these “other” or “other firearms” to avoid confusion with NFA “Firearms,” but traditionally, these have been called “Firearms.” The ATF ruled several years ago that a weapon exceeding 26” cannot easily be concealed on one’s person, so a “firearm” which exceeds 26” but is without a buttstock cannot be a rifle or a shotgun (which must have a buttstock to be either), such it is not required to have a rifle or shotgun length barrel... technically, if they have a pump slide like the Mossberg Shockwave or a vertical foregrip on an AR style rifle, they also cannot be considered a pistol, since they are not designed to be fired one handed... BUT they ARE ATF “Firearms.”

26” overall length in an AR is achieved with a standard carbine RE (brace or not) and a 10.5” barrel. These can accept a vertical foregrip.

GunnyUSMC said:
I thought it was 27”. But I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

With no offense intended, plainly, yes, this is incorrect. There is no limit to length of a pistol, nor of a pistol barrel. Folks confuse this by inductive reasoning from the definitions of “firearms” in which a firearm with >26” length can be either a “pistol” or a “firearm,” and of “rifle” which defines the firearm must be designed to fire from the shoulder, be greater than 26”, and have a barrel greater than 16”... so people assume that pistols can only be LESSER than 26.

But there are no such limits. Pistols and their barrels can be as long as anyone desires. But we have a choice when the overall length is >26” to treat it like a “Firearm,” which we can’t do if it’s under 26”.
 
Varminterror said:
Ah, gotcha... so YES to be confused with a “Firearm”....

Blogs have started calling these “other” or “other firearms” to avoid confusion with NFA “Firearms,” but traditionally, these have been called “Firearms.” The ATF ruled several years ago that a weapon exceeding 26” cannot easily be concealed on one’s person, so a “firearm” which exceeds 26” but is without a buttstock cannot be a rifle or a shotgun (which must have a buttstock to be either), such it is not required to have a rifle or shotgun length barrel... technically, if they have a pump slide like the Mossberg Shockwave or a vertical foregrip on an AR style rifle, they also cannot be considered a pistol, since they are not designed to be fired one handed... BUT they ARE ATF “Firearms.”

26” overall length in an AR is achieved with a standard carbine RE (brace or not) and a 10.5” barrel. These can accept a vertical foregrip.



With no offense intended, plainly, yes, this is incorrect. There is no limit to length of a pistol, nor of a pistol barrel. Folks confuse this by inductive reasoning from the definitions of “firearms” in which a firearm with >26” length can be either a “pistol” or a “firearm,” and of “rifle” which defines the firearm must be designed to fire from the shoulder, be greater than 26”, and have a barrel greater than 16”... so people assume that pistols can only be LESSER than 26.

But there are no such limits. Pistols and their barrels can be as long as anyone desires. But we have a choice when the overall length is >26” to treat it like a “Firearm,” which we can’t do if it’s under 26”.
Click to expand...
Ok good now you understand what I'm trying to build, this is such a hard subject to discuss. I think when they measure the overall length of from the back of the buffer tube, I've just Hurd a 12" barrel is safe minimum. I have to look at some handguards and core grips don't think the ones I have now will work well.

for a sub 16" barrel what would you recommend . I can get a 12" 6 arc barrel for $140 5.56 looks to loose to much that short. 7.62x39 is on the shelves so there's that.
 
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