It's a good thing but I still hate it.

In your case you got lucky and a factory load is just the ticket. I have seen this before but not often. As for me, my ammo that I handload is superior in every way to what I can buy at any price. That's part of the deal in handloading to me. The other is being able to make what I want when I want it instead of looking for availability in stores. Hopefully soon the prices will drop for us all and factory ammo will be affordable once again. Sorry this is aggravating to you though.

Orcon said:

I got a new scope and for some reason cannot locate any brass in my stash to load up some sighters for the rifle it was installed on. So like any sane person, I went to the gun store and payed 60 US dollars on a 20 round box of ammunition just to get the damn thing zeroed. The factory stuff shoots, by any practical means, as well as my handloads and I'm kinda miffed about it.

I know many folks enjoy the experience of handloading but I absolutely loathe it; it is, however, a labor that I endure to ensure my ammo is high quality and consistent. If it weren't for the current availability and cost I would have gone back and cleared the shelf.

Two sighters marked X and two 3 round groups at 100 yards. 7mm Rem Mag 162gr ELD-X Precision Hunter by Hornady.
View attachment 1019450

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Looks good. I ran into a similar thing with some 77 gr 5.56 ammo. But at current prices it cost the same to reload was buying it so I stocked up.

I have nothing against handloading. I was wanting to get started a few years ago (before this Twilight Zone world we live in now) when a buddy was selling me his Dillon set up very cheap, but wife was against it. I backed off. But I’ve finally got her okay to proceed, and have begun putting together some supplies and gear. But the reason I’ll be reloading is for a hobby more than to support my shooting addiction.

But by and large, factory ammo works fine. Folks who say they have to hand load for accuracy are right, to a degree, but if you can get 2 MOA from decent hunting rounds (and that should be easy with decent gear), you will be fine to kill most game you’ll be going after. Even varmint hunters after coyote can kill consistently kill yotes out to 300 yards if they do their part.

You have some burning desire to shoot sub MOA out to 200 and hit targets out past 500 yards, I get the need to be precise. But the reality many won’t admit is 2 MOA is plenty good to hunt deer size game. Back in the late 80’s-early 90’s, I killed deer and antelope when I was stationed in Montana with a stock Ruger M77 7MM and factory Remington core loc bullets out to 375 yards from a bipod. I don’t know what the MOA was on that gun…I used to sight it in an inch low at 25 yards and call it good. It worked fine. I sold it when short on funds and ended up replacing it when funds allowed with a friends Winchester M70 7MM, and sighted it in the same way. Still have that gun.

Today’s factory choices (when available) are outstanding. I rarely shoot my old 7MM these days, but the cheap 139 grain PPU ammo I bought on sale (cheapest stuff I could find) will ring 8” steel, every shot, all day long, at 300 yards. I imagine quality Hornady, Norma, Barnes, or Federal will do the same. And the Bushnell Banner scope mounted in the early 90’s it’s still holding the same zero after traveling from Montana to Alaska to Delaware to Texas.

Reloading isn't for everyone... but sometimes it's a means to an end. I love reloading, but loathe loading 9mm, and the whole brass prep process of reloading 5.56mm... but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

One of the guns I'm loading for was sold with a 1 MOA guarantee.......conditional upon use of match grade factory ammo. Several other guns are sold with impressive MOA guarantees as well. GA Precision has it down to 3/8" MOA.....again, conditional upon match grade factory ammo. So there isn't any connection of ammo to a specific gun, it's ammo built to a standard.

From that it seemed logical that if you could duplicate the standard, you should then be able to duplicate the accuracy. It made things seem doable....and simpler. But I'm loading for hunting. If my alternative is factory ammo, then I only need to load to that standard to get the same thing.

Helps me keep things in perspective.

Charlie98 said:

Reloading isn't for everyone... but sometimes it's a means to an end. I love reloading, but loathe loading 9mm, and the whole brass prep process of reloading 5.56mm... but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

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It is indeed a means to an end. For some cartridges even before The Panic it was worth your while to handload. Those kinds of ammo were (particularly now!) seldom seen and/or not the type of loads wanted.

I don't like loading 9mm or 5.56 either though I am set up for both. The types of shooting I was doing with those cartridges did not require the nth degree of accuracy nor was I wanting a specialized bullet so cheap (at that time) factory loads were the way to go for me and my brass stash steadily grew.

If you don't need much of a given cartridge and aren't trying to do something that factory ammo cannot do then why reload?

If you can't get factory ammo or it's not available in the loads you want then handloading is pretty much your only option.

Howa 9700 said:

So there isn't any connection of ammo to a specific gun, it's ammo built to a standard.

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If you believe that, don't bother reloading; just keep buying factory a ammo and leave the components for us.

I enjoy reloading as a hobby. It is nice to have one hobby support another hobby.

If you don't like it, then when times are good you can buy cheap and stack it deep. No sense doing something you don't like if you can avoid it.
It is nice you have the option of reloading so you can continue shooting.

edwardware said:

If you believe that, don't bother reloading; just keep buying factory a ammo and leave the components for us.

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To clarify, these guns are sold with an MOA guarantee that is not tied to any specific ammo tailored to the gun. Just factory ammo built to a standard. If the gun then achieves that level of accuracy using factory ammo, then the statement is true and speaks for itself. No doubt one can do even better, but you don't have to is the point. And if ammo to that standard is good enough for the purpose, it's good enough.

Then why not just rely on factory? What if it's not available? What happens when temporary becomes permanent? That has never happened in the past, but a lot of things going on these days has never happened either. The ability to reload means guns that would otherwise go silent won't. Not motivation for everyone, but is for me.

Dunross said:

If you don't need much of a given cartridge and aren't trying to do something that factory ammo cannot do then why reload?

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That was kind of my thought.

I mentioned hating case prep on 5.56mm. I haven't loaded 5.56mm in many years... mostly because I analyzed what it was costing me in prep time plus components, vs just buying a case of factory ammos (blasting ammo, of course, I still load all my ammos intended for accuracy shooting.) If you are only shooting less than 100 rounds a year for sighters and hunting, I wouldn't waste my time on handloads... given your distaste for the process. $60/20 seems like a bargain.

I look at handloading like painting. If you own a certain amount of buildings, or wood structures, you either paint, yourself, or pay someone to do it, it comes with the territory. Likewise, if you own a certain amount of firearms, reloading is a natural extension of the hobby.

The same as painting, you can reload to many levels of quality. You can be minimalistic, use the cheap gear, rush the job, and still have shootable ammo, much as a sloppy, hurried paint job, with cheap brushes. Or you can use top end components, dies and equipment, and carefully, methodically take your time, and end up with better bullets than you can buy off the shelf, every time. Needless to say, many derive a great deal
of satisfaction from a well done paint job, others just don't care, and hate painting, moreso because they know how to do it properly, and would just prefer to have a professional painter do a passable, but mediocre, job.

If you would rather buy your bullets off the shelf, no harm done, just personal preference.

I reload for everything I shoot, several of my guns have only seen handloads. But I hate the effort for certain cartridges (5.56 comes to mind) so if it can be had for a reasonable price, and it shoots good in that firearm, I'll buy factory ammo. But I won't be caught without my loading gear for times like these...

I find the same thing with my 6 CM... The factory Hornady 108 ELD ammo shoots consistent 1/2" groups. My handloads are only slightly better

Howa 9700 said:

To clarify, these guns are sold with an MOA guarantee that is not tied to any specific ammo tailored to the gun. Just factory ammo built to a standard. If the gun then achieves that level of accuracy using factory ammo, then the statement is true and speaks for itself. No doubt one can do even better, but you don't have to is the point. And if ammo to that standard is good enough for the purpose, it's good enough.

Then why not just rely on factory? What if it's not available? What happens when temporary becomes permanent? That has never happened in the past, but a lot of things going on these days has never happened either. The ability to reload means guns that would otherwise go silent won't. Not motivation for everyone, but is for me.

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That ammo components are held to a higher standard. But it's also loaded using OCW method. This makes it work acceptably well in more guns than what we fine tune in one gun.
I have found "match" ammo that shoots under 1/2 MOA and "match" ammo that is 1 1/4 MOA in the same rifle.

Probably would have cost you $60 to "work up" a load that shoots almost that good at a lower velocity.

Nice rifle. Nice ammo.

Orcon said:

I know many folks enjoy the experience of handloading but I absolutely loathe it; it is, however, a labor that I endure to ensure my ammo is high quality and consistent. If it weren't for the current availability and cost I would have gone back and cleared the shelf.

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There are at least two major groups of shooters/reloaders. Which group/subgroup do you belong to?

1. Shooter who use factory ammo
   • 1a - Shooter who hardly ever shoot
   • 1b - Shooter who is a recreational shooter
   • 1c - Shooter who is an avid shooter
   • 1d - Shooter who competes
     • 1d1 - Shooter who competes with any factory ammunition
     • 1d2 - Shooter who competes with tested most accurate factory ammunition
     • 1d3 - Shooter who competes with match ammunition
   • 1e - Shooters who wonder why they have guns but shoot anyways
2. Shooter who reloads
   • 2a - Shooter who reloads
     • 2a1 - Shooter who dislikes reloading but likes shooting (Will buy factory if price difference is close enough)
       • 2a1i - Shooter who reloads on occasion
       • 2a1ii - Shooter who reloads regularly
       • 2a1iii - Shooter who reloads to compete
     • 2a2 - Shooter who likes reloading and also likes shooting (Will hardly/never buy factory)
       • 2a2i - Shooter who reloads on occasion
       • 2a2ii - Shooter who reloads regularly
       • 2a2iii - Shooter who simply views gun as unloading device (May not even enjoy shooting)
       • 2a2iv - Shooter who reloads to compete
   • 2b - Shooter who handloads (May also reload and likely enjoys reloading/handloading)
     • 2b1 - Shooter who handloads but has "practical" limits
       • 2b1i - Shooter who handloads occasionally (hunting, etc.)
       • 2b1ii - Shooter who handloads regularly (match shooting, etc.)
     • 2b2 - Shooter who handloads but has "realistic" limits
       • 2b2i - Shooter who handloads occasionally (hunting, etc.)
       • 2b2ii - Shooter who handloads regularly (match shooting, etc.)
     • 2b2 - Shooter who handloads and has no limits
   • 2c - Shooters who wonder why they reload/handload but reload/handload anyways

Hornady Precision hunter is probably the most accurate factory ammo I've found, but you pay for it. Since I started using them, I'm almost exclusively handloading the ELD-X in 6.5cm, 30-06, and 300wm. In 6.5cm, my handload groups are only about 1/2 moa better than factory Precision Hunter at the same velocity and this was only achieved by tuning my seating depth to the rifle.
There are two things I've found that I can do better than the factory with these bullets.
1. Brass consistency, I.E. length, crimp, and especially weight. I've found as much as 5grn difference in brass weight from the same box.
2. Seating depth.
Hornady factory COAL for the 143 ELDx in 6.5cm is about 2.80. My wife's T/C compass loves about 2.795 so the factory rounds are almost perfect for her. My 110 tactical prefers about 2.780, so I gain about 1/2 moa over factory if I tune the seat depth a little.

My Tikka 7mm RM shot very similar to that with the same factory Hornady load, and Federal's load with the 160gr AccuBond. I like it when a gun shoots factory ammo this well! It also lets you know that your particular rifle shoots well with those bullets, and takes one variable out of buying reloading components!

Charlie98 said:

I love reloading, but loathe loading 9mm, and the whole brass prep process of reloading 5.56mm... but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

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This. 5.56 is the worst. Ream the primer pockets (cuz "NATO") and ream neck rim. Powder volume vs surface area = cases stuck in the resizing die. I have a special pin punch and hammer nearby when I do 5.56. I have to load 5.56 during the day, or I wake the family with the hammering and Bad Words.

I reload "premium" ammo, like 5.56 Gold Dot, .308 Hornaday ELD-X elk/deer rounds, .40 S&W 180gr HST clones for CC practice. For premium ammo (>$1/rd), the time is worth it.

I've found that I don't care how much the factory loads cost.
My ammo is better.
Take for example 223 ... my ammo prints 1/2 of what factory stuff does.
I can print at 25 yards, where very shot is in the 9-10rings.
Factory stuff spreads it out to include the 7/8 rings.
Sometimes even the 6 ring.

Therefore my ammo is a source of pride.

I also love reloading because I can try different powders.
This past week I made some 45 Colt using Ramshot Zip.
My normal load is better - 11 grains of Accurate #5
It was OK'd by Accurate's ballistician Johann

Just my 2¢ worth. YMMV
Stay safe my friends

I want to thank LiveLife for providing that chart. Believe it or not, I had never made the distinction between reloading and handloading, thinking they were the same thing, the only difference being symantics. So I looked it up and now know what the difference is.

That does help clarify things for me.....and provides even better perspective. Both as to loads, loading processes and techniques, and equipment used for all. So I would be classified as someone who reloads for hunting, plus enough extra to be proficient at it. Have also found that once you get past the initial learning curve, and get the processes and techniques down, get the dies adjusted, etc. loading a good sized pile of ammo doesn't take that much time or effort, with a fun reward at the end. Like finally getting to sit down to enjoy the meal you spent all day working on.....and finding out it is pretty tasty stuff. So as hobbies go, not a bad one to have. Both fun and practical.

But I'll add one more additional motivation. If not for what we have experienced in past year or two, I could probably continue to function on factory ammo as we have done in the past. But this recent past has shown what it could be like if these temporary shortages of ammo and loading supplies becomes permanent. If that ever happened, it would be too late to do anything about it. So I fixed it. In doing so, I imagine I have joined the ranks of a lot of folks doing the same. If it proves out I'm wrong and things come back in abundance and stay that way, no big deal. Better to be safe than sorry.

LiveLife said:

There are at least two major groups of shooters/reloaders. Which group/subgroup do you belong to?

1. Shooter who use factory ammo
   • 1a - Shooter who hardly ever shoot
   • 1b - Shooter who is a recreational shooter
   • 1c - Shooter who is an avid shooter
   • 1d - Shooter who competes
     • 1d1 - Shooter who competes with any factory ammunition
     • 1d2 - Shooter who competes with tested most accurate factory ammunition
     • 1d3 - Shooter who competes with match ammunition
   • 1e - Shooters who wonder why they have guns but shoot anyways
2. Shooter who reloads
   • 2a - Shooter who reloads
     • 2a1 - Shooter who dislikes reloading but likes shooting (Will buy factory if price difference is close enough)
       • 2a1i - Shooter who reloads on occasion
       • 2a1ii - Shooter who reloads regularly
       • 2a1iii - Shooter who reloads to compete
     • 2a2 - Shooter who likes reloading and also likes shooting (Will hardly/never buy factory)
       • 2a2i - Shooter who reloads on occasion
       • 2a2ii - Shooter who reloads regularly
       • 2a2iii - Shooter who simply views gun as unloading device (May not even enjoy shooting)
       • 2a2iv - Shooter who reloads to compete
   • 2b - Shooter who handloads (May also reload and likely enjoys reloading/handloading)
     • 2b1 - Shooter who handloads but has "practical" limits
       • 2b1i - Shooter who handloads occasionally (hunting, etc.)
       • 2b1ii - Shooter who handloads regularly (match shooting, etc.)
     • 2b2 - Shooter who handloads but has "realistic" limits
       • 2b2i - Shooter who handloads occasionally (hunting, etc.)
       • 2b2ii - Shooter who handloads regularly (match shooting, etc.)
     • 2b2 - Shooter who handloads and has no limits
   • 2c - Shooters who wonder why they reload/handload but reload/handload anyways

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So where’s your typical country living redneck fit in there? The hunter-plinker recreational-practical informal-regular shooters who spend a brick of.22’s a month just making cans dance but takes two seasons to empty a box of.30-30?

Howa 9700 said:

I imagine I have joined the ranks of a lot of folks doing the same. If it proves out I'm wrong and things come back in abundance and stay that way, no big deal. Better to be safe than sorry.

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My guess is around 100 million guns were sold in the past decade (To add to several hundred million guns already owned) and new owners of these guns need ammunition. And with younger generations growing up playing first person shooter games, "gun culture" is experiencing a resurgence.

We have seen the demand from these new gun owners during the past several ammunition shortages with demand currently surpassing the 24/7 manufacturing supply capacity of ammunition manufacturers.

Since ammunition manufacturers are not likely to add new factories (Shifting of production from military contract may help, especially if Army adopts the new polymer cased cartridge), demand side induced shortage may continue near term. And as many of us have already realized, when ammunition is not available for purchase, there is the option of reloading and some of these new gun owners are likely to take up the hobby of reloading out of necessity.

Things are looking better and like in previous shortages, I am seeing signs of inventory returning to stores although more popular items are still selling out quick. Like many reloaders experienced, ammunition manufacturers likely found out the limiting component to ammunition production was primer shortage and there are several new primer factories under construction that will help with ongoing and future demand for ammunition.

So looks like our hobby of reloading may gain in popularity.

GeoDudeFlorida said:

So where’s your typical country living redneck fit in there? The hunter-plinker recreational-practical informal-regular shooters who spend a brick of.22’s a month just making cans dance but takes two seasons to empty a box of.30-30?

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Perhaps 1b?