Al Capone's Colt 1911 Is Up for Auction

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I'd suppose the determination of "loving, giving family man" or "ruthless gang lord killer and racketeer" would have a lot to do with which side of the equation you fall on. Seems a lot of the mobsters of the era as well as foreign leaders in various world wars would have similar opinions both ways.
 
The Last Outlaw said:
I don't think you are correct.
https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/101793933106/smith-wesson-model-10-the-smith-wesson-model
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From the cited reference, the FIRST line reads: "The Smith & Wesson Model 10 has been in production since 1899 when it was introduced as the Smith & Wesson .38 Hand Ejector Model of 1899."
A quick check of most any reference book will show Smith & Wesson began identifying various handguns by model number in 1957. Prior to that, they were identified by a name, in this instance the 38 Hand Ejector.
I will agree the reference statement is vague enough, but the vagueness is misleading. I will also agree the revolver was essential the same except for some manufacturing changes (better metallurgy, an improved hammer/firing pin block - which happened long prior to model numbers, the shape and size of the front sight, and eventual ceasing to use external screws. No item marked Mod 10 existed prior to the change, initiated in 1957 and subsequently.
 
There is some interesting history behind not just guns of the mob, which have a museum but also guns ranging from the rich and famous to even the guns of General George Patton. Capone was not limited to just a single gun and surprisingly many of his guns were confiscated not by the FBI in Elliot Ness fashion but by the IRS when Capone was finally nailed for Tax Evasion. Go figure huh? Anyway a Google of Guns of Al Capone will bring up some interesting stuff including reference to a story involving the mentioned S&W which is humorous. Seems the IRS sent a museum an Iver Johnson rather than the correct S&W. Al Capone also had a few Tommy Guns which were used in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre which are out there somewhere on display. Gee, makes me want to watch The Sopranos. :) Oh yes, and lets not forget Bonnie and Clyde. The good guys like Roy Rogers.

Ron
 
Archie said:
From the cited reference, the FIRST line reads: "The Smith & Wesson Model 10 has been in production since 1899 when it was introduced as the Smith & Wesson .38 Hand Ejector Model of 1899."
A quick check of most any reference book will show Smith & Wesson began identifying various handguns by model number in 1957. Prior to that, they were identified by a name, in this instance the 38 Hand Ejector.
I will agree the reference statement is vague enough, but the vagueness is misleading. I will also agree the revolver was essential the same except for some manufacturing changes (better metallurgy, an improved hammer/firing pin block - which happened long prior to model numbers, the shape and size of the front sight, and eventual ceasing to use external screws. No item marked Mod 10 existed prior to the change, initiated in 1957 and subsequently.
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I stand corrected.
 
armedwalleye said:
I'd suppose the determination of "loving, giving family man" or "ruthless gang lord killer and racketeer" would have a lot to do with which side of the equation you fall on. Seems a lot of the mobsters of the era as well as foreign leaders in various world wars would have similar opinions both ways.
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I fail to see "sides" of any supposed "equation.". Capone was either a brutal, murderous thug or he wasn't. He was. Hitler was said to have different facets of his personality but it makes no difference in the end (and no, I'm not comparing Hitler's atrocities with Capone's but would argue that Capone never had the opportunity).
 
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SwampWolf said:
I fail to see "sides" of any supposed "equation.". Capone was either a brutal, murderous thug or he wasn't. He was. Hitler was said to have a different facets of his personality but it makes no difference in the end (and no, I'm not comparing Hitler's atrocities with Capone's but would argue that Capone never had the opportunity).
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Any rational person would agree...
But you can't discount the fact that fans and followers of those people are typically irrational.
 
@bikerdoc @Space Ghost
Howland937 said:
Any rational person would agree...
But you can't discount the fact that fans and followers of those people are typically irrational.
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Hmm.. not necessarily. I grew up to look up to Doroteo Arango Arámbula because of my background. Mexicans view this man as a hero to the people.

Americans? In my experience (that is, perhaps not EVERY American, but every American history teacher and most Americans of no Latino background) view him as a bandit, a thief. Two sides to the same coin. I wouldn't call it irrational, I guess it all depends on perspective. That's not to say their aren't those who are irrational, but said irrationality isn't the rule.
 
Well I guess the more recent call say last 20 years ''don't publish the perps name'' in the News, so they gain notoriety, actually goes back to early last century. Sometimes longer.

Not just a recent problem!
 
SwampWolf said:
I fail to see "sides" of any supposed "equation.". Capone was either a brutal, murderous thug or he wasn't. He was. Hitler was said to have a different facets of his personality but it makes no difference in the end (and no, I'm not comparing Hitler's atrocities with Capone's but would argue that Capone never had the opportunity).
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I'm right there with you, Swampwolf. You're evil or you're not... Only pointed out that, as in the Capone family statements, opinions can vary widely, although I'd think you opinion would be decidedly different if you had family on the recieving end....
 
SwampWolf said:
I fail to see "sides" of any supposed "equation.". Capone was either a brutal, murderous thug or he wasn't. He was. Hitler was said to have a different facets of his personality but it makes no difference in the end (and no, I'm not comparing Hitler's atrocities with Capone's but would argue that Capone never had the opportunity).
Click to expand...

Many notorious criminals were very good at compartmentalizing their emotions with different people. Capone, in this instance, was a good family man regardless of his crimes. John Wayne Gacy was also family man as well as a clown for children's parties. In many cases, it is what helps lifelong criminals harder to catch. The people closest to the criminal have the hardest time coming to grips the crimes committed because they saw "the normal."
 
SwampWolf said:
I fail to see "sides" of any supposed "equation.". Capone was either a brutal, murderous thug or he wasn't. He was. Hitler was said to have different facets of his personality but it makes no difference in the end (and no, I'm not comparing Hitler's atrocities with Capone's but would argue that Capone never had the opportunity).
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Nothing is really absolute; especially the first clause of this statement! To keep it somewhat on guns and the notorious personalities of Capone and Hitler---both were known to favor the .32 ACP / 7.65 Browning caliber in their EDC pistols; the Colt 1903 Pocket and the Walther PPK respectively. Being a huge fan of the 1903 myself...I side with Alphonse in this matter. The little Colt is an exceptionally capable sidearm whether in a shoulder holster under a tuxedo or on one's hip. Shoot it side-by-side with the PPK and well...BOTH are great, reliable compact automatics but one will feel like it was fitted like a Swiss watch and as smooth as a bar of soap...and one won't. And in addition to being a genocidal maniac, Hitler shared in common with Capone a passion for the opera, fine art (that suited his tastes), showing 'kindness' to children as it suited him and fit his mood (a friend's Grandad related to me the story of old AL once giving him a ride in his car in Chi South-Side Roseland; just a kid on the street. In Chicago, this is a common story even today). And at least old AL wasn't a &^%$# VEGAN !!! But Hitler certainly was... I'd pass on Capone's .45 and let a museum or someone with a passion for the history have at it!
 
Neo-Luddite said:
Nothing is really absolute; especially the first clause of this statement! To keep it somewhat on guns and the notorious personalities of Capone and Hitler---both were known to favor the .32 ACP / 7.65 Browning caliber in their EDC pistols; the Colt 1903 Pocket and the Walther PPK respectively. Being a huge fan of the 1903 myself...I side with Alphonse in this matter. The little Colt is an exceptionally capable sidearm whether in a shoulder holster under a tuxedo or on one's hip. Shoot it side-by-side with the PPK and well...BOTH are great, reliable compact automatics but one will feel like it was fitted like a Swiss watch and as smooth as a bar of soap...and one won't. And in addition to being a genocidal maniac, Hitler shared in common with Capone a passion for the opera, fine art (that suited his tastes), showing 'kindness' to children as it suited him and fit his mood (a friend's Grandad related to me the story of old AL once giving him a ride in his car in Chi South-Side Roseland; just a kid on the street. In Chicago, this is a common story even today). And at least old AL wasn't a &^%$# VEGAN !!! But Hitler certainly was... I'd pass on Capone's .45 and let a museum or someone with a passion for the history have at it!
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I gotta ask, which one feels like a swiss watch?
 
Terry G said:
I remember reading that Jesse James Mother sold hundreds of his "Guns". 50 Cent .32 revolvers that she got wholesale from a feed store. $40.00 to $50.00 I believe.
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Probably true from all I've read about it. I hate to make excuses on her behalf having no personal knowledge of the lady, but after the Pinkerton's literally blew up parts of her house and took her arm off in a notorious (and pointless) raid...it could be said that she was hard pressed.
 
gobsauce said:
I gotta ask, which one feels like a swiss watch?
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No doubt...yesterday, now, tomorrow... in 100 years---the Colt Model "M"...commonly referred to as the "Colt Pocket". Original examples were more often than not fitted with extreme care that endures a century later. In another century the same will be said; depending of course upon our continued liberty, most original Model M's will make it for another hundred years and beyond. The example in my care is now 96 years old, in my family for over 70 of those years. Apart from being under-powered by modern standards, I'd carry that pistol as my EDC if she wasn't a cherished family heirloom I don't care to abuse day-to-day. My own tradition? I carry the pistol we call by the name "Honey" when I take my daughters Christmas shopping.
 
Neo-Luddite said:
No doubt...yesterday, now, tomorrow... in 100 years---the Colt Model "M"...commonly referred to as the "Colt Pocket". Original examples were more often than not fitted with extreme care that endures a century later. In another century the same will be said; depending of course upon our continued liberty, most original Model M's will make it for another hundred years and beyond. The example in my care is now 96 years old, in my family for over 70 of those years. Apart from being under-powered by modern standards, I'd carry that pistol as my EDC if she wasn't a cherished family heirloom I don't care to abuse day-to-day. My own tradition? I carry the pistol we call by the name "Honey" when I take my daughters Christmas shopping.
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What a great tradition! Give "Honey" my regards
 
Terry G said:
I remember reading that Jesse James Mother sold hundreds of his "Guns". 50 Cent .32 revolvers that she got wholesale from a feed store. $40.00 to $50.00 I believe.
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I have visited the James house and farm. It's open to the public, and the original 'house' is still there - more of a hut by today's standards.

Mrs James had to make money somehow, there
being no James menfolk remaining to work the farm.

She sold gravel from Jesse's grave. When the visitors - who paid a nickel or dime to visit the site- left, she walked down to the creek and gathered another bucket of gravel. This was spread over the grave for the next days visitors.
 
I lived in Frank James house at 420 South Oak in Nevada, Mo in the late 1970's. There weren't any guns left around there for me to find, and no, this is not a joke.
 
Lots of guys brought Nazi and even Japanese weapons back as souvenirs. Many of those guns might have been used to kill Americans or execute innocent country folk. The evil behind those souvenirs didn't seem to perturb people from wanting them. I wouldn't want or NOT want a weapon based on that either. But I also wouldn't pay a price like just because of who owned it.

My family has an old Filipino dagger. I don't remember how we got it, but there are literally like 12 obvious notches cut into the sheath! You KNOW what that probably means... Still,.it's an interesting piece and Ive always liked having it around.
 
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