Those junk Hi-Point C9 pistols

Yup, junk! But the kind of junk that is reliable, obviously shoots well, and doesn't break the bank.
That's the best kind of junk.

I was going to write about how the Gun Control Act of 1968 created an American industry making small, cheap pistols safe from foreign imports by banning the importation of small, cheap pistols.

But then it occurred to me that the High Point pistols and carbines almost certainly could be imported, if they were made in a foreign country. I think all of them exceed the size restrictions imposed by the GCA of '68, and that was the main mechanism by which small, cheap foreign pistols were kept out. That, in turn, led to the American companies that made Ravens, Brycos, Lorcins, Jennings, and so one, with High Point (descending from corporate predecessors like Maverick, Haskell, and Stallard) emerging as the best of the breed.

So Congress, by legislation, created a small American industry that no longer needs protection from foreign imports. True, it took more than 30 years, but at the age I am now, that does not seem like so long. I wonder if there are other areas where this would work? I suppose any economist worth his degree would howl in outrage at the idea, however.

Also, about 40 years ago, America had a choice between jobs here and cheap stuff from China, and we tacitly made the choice for cheap stuff. There was little or no debate. Hence the America we live in now. I suppose if the Chinese were still allowed to sell guns here, even High Point would not have survived.

I apologize if this strikes you as pointless rambling. It probably is.

Monac said:

I was going to write about how the Gun Control Act of 1968 created an American industry making small, cheap pistols safe from foreign imports by banning the importation of small, cheap pistols.

But then it occurred to me that the High Point pistols and carbines almost certainly could be imported, if they were made in a foreign country. I think all of them exceed the size restrictions imposed by the GCA of '68, and that was the main mechanism by which small, cheap foreign pistols were kept out. That, in turn, led to the American companies that made Ravens, Bryco's, Lorcin's, Jennings, and so one, with High Point (descending from corporate predecessors like Maverick, Haskell, and Stallard) emerging as the best of the breed.

So Congress, by legislation, created a small American industry that no longer needs protection from foreign imports. True, it took more than 30 years, but at the age I am now, that does not seem like so long. I wonder if there are other areas where this would work? I suppose any economist worth his degree would howl in outrage at the idea, however.

Also, about 40 years ago, America had a choice between jobs here and cheap stuff from China, and we tacitly made the choice for cheap stuff. There was little or no debate. Hence the America we live in now. I suppose if the Chinese were still allowed to sell guns here, even High Point would not have survived.

I apologize if this strikes you as pointless rambling. It probably is.

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The HiPoints are economically priced and manufactured, they are not 'cheap' pistols. They use technology borrowed for the parts industry connect to the automobile industry. I guess the chinese could copy it. I believed that most of the HiPoints if made over seas since they have safeties and are hefty would pass import guidelines. But yet that is not happening.
What you say is true for the jenny, raven, and other cheap pocket pistols. Importation bans made their manufacture possible until law suits I think it was closed them down.

I am amazed at the amount of cheap pot metal required to make this gun, I am surprised these POS pistols function. But the Hi-Point is better than nothing I guess.

Can't really knock HiPoints other than being butt ugly.

joneb said:

I am amazed at the amount of cheap pot metal required to make this gun, I am surprised these POS pistols function. But the Hi-Point is better than nothing I guess.

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What make you say cheap. it is made out the same metals that are many of the parts in your car are made out of.

Many swear by these pistols.
Rather than being machined from forged steel, the slide is die cast from Zamak-3 (A traditional zinc alloy, also popularly referred to as pot metal or white metal). Die casting is particularly commonplace in Ohio, which influenced the decision to implement it.[1]

Uncommon for this construction, Hi-Point pistols are rated for +P ammunition in calibers up to .45 ACP.

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barnetmill said:

What make you say cheap. it is made out the same metals that are many of the parts in your car are made out of.

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So car parts are made from the best materials?
I had a Iver Johnson TP 22 that I liked, but because it was made from cheap pot metal the frame failed and rendered the gun useless.
You get what you pay for, and a little more $ you can get something that will last a lot longer.

I agree with the title of this thread.

Lo-Profile said:

Can't really knock HiPoints other than being butt ugly.

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Im butt ugly .. work everyday.. always reliable ..

Ive owned a bunch over the years ..
Hi-Points CS is second to none

They seem to fill a niche … simple, dependable blow back action …

The one I ended up with is probably more reliable than I am, and will likely be around after I'm not. I took it off a friend for $70 simply because he wanted the money for something else and that's what I had on me at the time.

My C9 is more accurate and reliable than my Glock 23 was. Guess which one I sold and which I still have?

While Hi Point firearms are fugly and heavy, they do function reliably and Hi Point has some of the best customer service in the industry. I know my Hi Point 4095 carbine is more accurate than one would expect from a $180 gun and it runs like a Swiss watch.

I had 4 of their pistols. Traded them later on. They were not being used. Got more than i paid. I still have my carbines. They are a hoot to shoot. My wife still has her Hi-point .380. It has always fired for her.

I know some serious gun people that hunt hogs that have purchase the hipoint 10mm carbines for hogs. These are people that also have ARs set up with suppressors and night vision scopes.

joneb said:

So car parts are made from the best materials?
I had a Iver Johnson TP 22 that I liked, but because it was made from cheap pot metal the frame failed and rendered the gun useless.
You get what you pay for, and a little more $ you can get something that will last a lot longer.

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They are made form materials that perform as needed. Function and reliability that does not require the best, only what works well. Glocks for example do not use the best materials. There is for glocks a thriving industry in replacing mim parts for machined steel parts for example.

I knew an older guy who had one of these. He was ex combat military and an ex LEO snd at under $200.00, this was the only gun that he felt he could afford as a fixed income retiree. The guy could still shoot the blazes out of a target with it at the range. So it proves that it’s really all about the Indian and not the bow & arrow!

I can't believe they are even allowed to have a gun forum on the interwebs. lol

I am sorry if I offended people by calling the High Point cheap. I know that "cheap" can be used in a derogatory way (see post #5 above by joneb for an example), but I did not mean it that way here. If the Walgreens near me has Hershey bars on sale for $0.88 today, I say that Hershey bars are cheap today, but I don't mean they are bad today. I realize there was no way for the reader to tell that from what I wrote without more adjectives, though.

To me, High Point fills the same niche Iver Johnson, Harrington & Richardson, and Hopkins & Allen did about 125 years ago, only better. They make pistols that are low priced compared to the big-name alternatives, yet which generally have a good reputation for reliability, and at least a decent reputation for durability. (Yes, I see you, joneb. Every brand under the sun has people who hate it. You are a distinct minority in regards to High Point, as far as I can tell.)

Why do I say they are even better than the old cheap (but decent!) revolver makers? Because High Point pistols also have a decent reputation for accuracy, and are available in all popular centerfire automatic pistol calibers except maybe 10mm. That is where IJ and H&R got left behind; they never got beyond 38 S&W until both companies were on the brink of bankruptcy. That is where High Point was different from the other cast-zinc pistol makers, right from the beginning; as Stallard or Maverick or Haskell, they were in big calibers, whereas the others could not make a decent gun bigger than 380. I offer the Lorcin 9mm "War Eagle" as evidence.

So I am perfectly OK with High Points, and view them as fine guns provided you accept them as what they are: they are big, heavy, single-action automatics. If that does the job for you, then they seem to be good value for their price.

PS - I have never owned a High Point. I do have a Maverick JS-9mm. I bought it because it looked like a small child's drawing of an automatic pistol and cost less than $200. I have not fired it yet.

PPS - Of course, the reason IJ and H&R never got into more powerful defensive pistols calibers than 38 S&W was that they chose to focus on making 22 target pistols instead, with small defensive pistols as a sideline. That was where the money was for about 30 years after WWII and was a perfectly sound business then. But America changed very quickly from about 1965 to 1975, and they lacked the capital to keep up.

Not sure they are junk but certainly a lower tier product but there is a market for that. Not everyone has the same priorities, needs, and budgets. The average non enthusiast pistol owner probably hardly ever shoots their pistol. Not a firearm I would recommend to someone not knowledgeable about firearms if they asked about it and they had the means to buy something better for not that much more.

It's main attracting characteristic is it is less costly than others and it works. That's the reason they use low cost materials and a simple operating system. A person who has not much money right now, and needs a reliable pistol right now, can get one in the high point. Of course some will buy for other reasons or no reason at all. Personally I am glad they are made and available - people who have to choose between food on the table and protection from predators should be able to afford both.

Rest shooting is one place where the Hi Points definitely look good. The fixed barrel legitimately makes them more accurate than most other autos. If you have time to stage the trigger, those suckers can shoot.

barnetmill said:

They are made form materials that perform as needed

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So I guess if Iver Johnson had used two or three times the amount of pot metal it may have lasted a bit longer
There is a reason we don't make butter knives out of butter.

Saw a YouTube video a few years ago where they were torture testing a Hipoint C9. At first they took a bunch of loaded mags and had a couple guys on hand to reload mags. They shot a couple dozen magazines as fast as they could. That caused no problems so when it cooled they put a 30% over pressure round in and fired it remotely. Again, no damage so a 50% over pressure round was fired with no apparent damage. Next they pounded a bolt into the barrel a little ways and fired a round. The bolt was ejected. The gun now keyholed badly but worked. Finally they pounded the bolt in further and fired a 50% over pressure round. That bulged the barrel enough to tie up the slide
What was happening is that being a direct blow back design, at some point the pressure was blowing the action open so they took the gun apart and belt sanded the bulge off the top of the barrel so the gun would work. They did the bolt thing, over charged round and clamped the gun down as well as clamping the slide & frame together. That finally destroyed the gun

oh come on.... theire junk! For a few dollars more you could bye an HK MK23, or Korth, or Les Bayer.
Wait... did we already get that out of the way?

If not, what can you buy for "a little more" beyond a fantasy from a long closed pawn shop in the 1980's?

I've been meaning to get one for years, but never get around to it. They have a few real uses, and I have nothing really bad to say about them, except the take down. AT least 9mm.

Does anyone here have a .45? I handled one at a store, and felt like I picked up a cinder block. I remember it weighing 5lbs. If anyone has a 45 model, can you get me a weight on it?

barnetmill said:

What make you say cheap. it is made out the same metals that are many of the parts in your car are made out of.

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Name the car parts that are made of Zamak.