22 magnum for self defense.

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AgPilot said:
I was told many years ago when getting a Gun for self defense to make sure I get something that will take someone out. If You have to use the Gun in self defense You shoot to kill. Because the Person that You have to pull on will come back after You after You send them to the hospital with just a wound.
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I think you received bad advice. Most reputable trainers, gun lawyers, and self defense experts stress that we shoot to stop the threat, not to kill.
And posting that comment on a public forum may come back to haunt you if you ever use a firearm in self defense and kill someone.
 
AgPilot said:
I was told many years ago when getting a Gun for self defense to make sure I get something that will take someone out. If You have to use the Gun in self defense You shoot to kill. Because the Person that You have to pull on will come back after You after You send them to the hospital with just a wound.
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That is terrible advice. Any indication that that was your objective could destroy a legal defense of self defense and result in a conviction for a very serious crime.
 
AgPilot said:
I was told many years ago when getting a Gun for self defense to make sure I get something that will take someone out. If You have to use the Gun in self defense You shoot to kill. Because the Person that You have to pull on will come back after You after You send them to the hospital with just a wound.
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The question of whether or not you were given good advice has already been sufficiently answered. However, this does bring up a question in my mind. How many people do come back and try to assault someone a second time after recovering (or get a buddy to do so). I’d really like to know the odds, and how much extra careful one should be after successfully refusing to be victimized. Maybe it’s off topic though...
 
Kleanbore said:
That is terrible advice. Any indication that that was your objective could destroy a legal defense of self defense and result in a conviction for a very serious crime.
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My objective is to protect Myself. If I am attacked I will defend Myself. That is Not My premeditated thought to kill someone. But It is My right to protect Myself from a criminal. And I’m not going to be nice to You if You attack Me for NO reason.
 
Mauser lover said:
The question of whether or not you were given good advice has already been sufficiently answered. However, this does bring up a question in my mind. How many people do come back and try to assault someone a second time after recovering (or get a buddy to do so). I’d really like to know the odds, and how much extra careful one should be after successfully refusing to be victimized. Maybe it’s off topic though...
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Bad advice? Maybe so. But if You or Your Family is attacked in a home invasion. Do You want to find out if that Person will come back after You later after You shot Them in the leg? I for one Do Not
 
AgPialot said:
Bad advice? Maybe so. But if You or Your Family is attacked in a home invasion. Do You want to find out if that Person will come back after You later after You shot Them in the leg? I for one Do Not
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Jeff Cooper put it very succinctly years ago: "The only thing that justifies shooting at another human being is the overwhelming necessity to cause him to immediately cease what he is doing. This need must be so great that id does not matter, either legally or morally, if he dies as a result of being stopped." (emphasis added)
 
MrChicken said:
Don't be those guys, the ones that miss most of their shots.

Make the first shot count and every shot is the first shot. Don't think of it as nine shots, it's one shot at a time.
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Spoken just like someone who is really good at punching holes on paper targets on the square range. Targets that neither move nor shoot back.
 
True, just as someone who can't learn to write their name can't write a bestseller novel.

The issue is that learning to write one's name consistently without error doesn't guarantee that a person will be able to write a bestseller. Just as learning to shoot extremely well from a stationary position, at a stationary piece of paper doesn't guarantee that a person will be be able to hit every shot while being shot at, potentially after having been injured, while moving to avoid being injured or injured further, and while shooting at a target that is moving.
 
AgPilot said:
My objective is to protect Myself. If I am attacked I will defend Myself. That is Not My premeditated thought to kill someone. But It is My right to protect Myself from a criminal. And I’m not going to be nice to You if You attack Me for NO reason.
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Except it is premeditated and should, in all honesty, be stricken from these pages! Read what you wrote below along with your previous posted “advice”. You’ve stated clearly that if someone attacks you, your intent is to end their life, NOT the attack. The internet is forever.

AgPilot said:
Do You want to find out if that Person will come back after You later after You shot Them in the leg? I for one Do Not
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SO.........saw the YouTube video in the thread.........will carry a .40 to split the difference between the 9 mm and .45.
Yes I like 22 mag if thats all you ve got.
 
AgPilot said:
I was told many years ago when getting a Gun for self defense to make sure I get something that will take someone out. If You have to use the Gun in self defense You shoot to kill. Because the Person that You have to pull on will come back after You after You send them to the hospital with just a wound.
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So, given the anemic capability of handguns, you were taught to never use a pistol for self defense, right?

Atavar said:
I bet after I shoot badguy 9 times with .22wmr I can run faster than he can.
Another thing about the caliber is that it makes a nice loud intimidating bang.
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I always love it when people assume that when a gun holds X number of rounds that they will be able to actually put all X number of rounds on target in a self defense situation.

As for the intimidating bang, are there any unsuppressed handguns that don't?

Skylerbone said:
might check with the Israelis about proven effectiveness from .22 but not disagreeing with the broader point of your post.
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Effectiveness is an interesting concept when considering the differences in application of assassination versus self defense. Yes, they (and others) have used .22 lr for assassinations. Strangely, the Israelis and other are not prone to using .22 lr or .22 wmr for self defense in handguns or rifles.
 
AgPilot said:
Bad advice? Maybe so.
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Yes, it is.
AgPilot said:
But if You or Your Family is attacked in a home invasion. Do You want to find out if that Person will come back after You later after You shot Them in the leg?
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Should the evidence show beyond a reasonable doubt that the defender fired with the intent to kill. the defender will will not be there for the perp to "come back" to.
Wouldn't any of the many other criminals out there pose a greater risk than someone the defender has shot?
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Yes, they (and others) have used .22 lr for assassinations. Strangely, the Israelis and other are not prone to using .22 lr or .22 wmr for self defense in handguns or rifles.
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My response did not indicate otherwise but was in reply to effectiveness/lethality. We’ve heard of the kodiak that was put down with rimfire, ‘‘twas shot placement and a fair piece of luck.

Bring enough gun. We won’t ever know how much that is until after an incident, but it can be planned for. Caliber is one metric in that equation, not the whole enchilada.
 
Kleanbore said:
Wouldn't any of the many other criminals out there pose a greater risk than someone the defender has shot?
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Yes they would, beginning with his new cell mate, closely followed by the thousands of neighbors in adjoining cells once convicted.

It’s horrible advice, perhaps THE WORST EVER to encourage the killing of another human. Beyond the psychological damage to the shooter rest assured the legal ramifications are severe; prison time, civil suit by the victim’s family. Yes victim. If you gun someone down they become the victim. Don’t ever believe your “stuff” is worth that and don’t believe the Hollywood twist of criminals revisiting for revenge.
 
I have on occasion considered a S&W 351C as a backup gun or as a very lightweight gun for running trails and roads. Do I think it's a great caliber for self-defense? No, not really, but all carry guns represent a compromise, and in some carry situations that compromise is bigger than others.
 
kidneyboy said:
Any firearm, regardless of caliber, is a great option for self defense.
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giphy.gif

Well then, ;)
Thompson Encore in 308 for shopping at Wal-Mart.
Mossberg Shockwave for that "quick trip to the store"
S&W 500 mag for walking the dogs, "in a good area"
Davis 32 acp derringer for an area of greater anticipated threat, for when one must go to area of the "bad guys" (They are immobile, you have to go to them:p)
 
Ive investigated multiple self defense shootings. Ive been involved in a self defense shooting. Standing in the street with several homicide detectives and a county prosecutor looking at you and they ask you why you shot the guy.... saying "to kill him" is a very bad answer.

If the shoot is a very obvious open close case of self defense that might not matter (except for the upcoming civil suit). But if the shoot ends up in a grey area, that could bury you. Remember that witnesses usually dont know what's actually going on and dont usually see the whole incident. Dont underestimate the ability for a witness to completely misunderstand what happened or to state their assumptions or uninformed opinions as fact. Or completely seeing things that didnt happen.
 
We just had a Burgler enter a Home at night close to where I live. There was a scuffle. The home owner shot and killed the burgler. No charges are being brought against the homeowner
 
AgPilot said:
We just had a Burgler enter a Home at night close to where I live. There was a scuffle. The home owner shot and killed the burgler. No charges are being brought against the homeowner
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So what?
 
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