13 handgun kits bought at Allentown gun show spark Pa.-N.J. ‘ghost gun’ probe, attorneys general say

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MEHavey said:
^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^
might appear to be the issue
Click to expand...
No, its not the issue. No current federal law or ATF regulation regulates "handgun kits" or engaging in the business of selling handgun kits. You can buy a thousand and AFT has no jurisdiction because they are not firearms as defined in federal law.

This seems to be strictly a violation of New Jersey law and possibly Pennsylvania law.
 
https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=Publish:10.1048/Enu


2C :39-9 Manufacture, transport, disposition and defacement of weapons and dangerous instruments and appliances. 2C :39-9 . Manufacture, Transport, Disposition and Defacement of Weapons and Dangerous Instruments and Appliances.

a. Machine guns. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of any machine gun without being registered or licensed to do so as provided in chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

b. Sawed-off shotguns. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of any sawed-off shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

c. Firearm silencers. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of any firearm silencer is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

d. Weapons. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of any weapon, including gravity knives, switchblade knives, ballistic knives, daggers, dirks, stilettos, billies, blackjacks, metal knuckles, sandclubs, slingshots, cesti or similar leather bands studded with metal filings, or, except as otherwise provided in subsection i. of this section, in the case of firearms if he is not licensed or registered to do so as provided in chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of any weapon or other device which projects, releases or emits tear gas or other substances intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or permanent injury through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air, which is intended to be used for any purpose other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes by duly authorized military or law enforcement personnel or the device is for the purpose of personal self-defense, is pocket-sized and contains not more than three-quarters of an ounce of chemical substance not ordinarily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury, or other than to be used by any person permitted to possess such weapon or device under the provisions of subsection d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5, which is intended for use by financial and other business institutions as part of an integrated security system, placed at fixed locations, for the protection of money and property, by the duly authorized personnel of those institutions, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

e. Defaced firearms. Any person who defaces any firearm is guilty of a crime of the third degree. Any person who knowingly buys, receives, disposes of or conceals a defaced firearm, except an antique firearm or an antique handgun, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

f. (1) Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sell, or disposes of any armor piercing ammunition, as defined in subsection gg. of N.J.S.2C:39-1, which is intended to be used for any purpose other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes by duly authorized military or law enforcement personnel, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

(2) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prevent a licensed collector of ammunition as defined in paragraph (2) of subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-3 from transporting the bullets defined in paragraph (1) of this subsection from (a) any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer's place of business to the collector's dwelling, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him, or (b) to or from the collector's dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him to any gun show for the purposes of display, sale, trade, or transfer between collectors, or (c) to or from the collector's dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him to any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice; provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent of the State Police and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent, and provided further that the ammunition being transported shall be carried not loaded in any firearm and contained in a closed and fastened case, gun box, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

g. Assault firearms. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of an assault firearm without being registered or licensed to do so pursuant to N.J.S.2C:58-1 et seq. is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

h. Large capacity ammunition magazines. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of a large capacity ammunition magazine which is intended to be used for any purpose other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes by duly authorized military or law enforcement personnel is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

i. Transporting firearms into this State for an unlawful sale or transfer. Any person who knowingly transports, ships or otherwise brings into this State any firearm for the purpose of unlawfully selling, transferring, giving, assigning or otherwise disposing of that firearm to another individual is guilty of a crime of the second degree. Any motor vehicle used by a person to transport, ship, or otherwise bring a firearm into this State for unlawful sale or transfer shall be subject to forfeiture in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:64-1 et seq.; provided however, this forfeiture provision shall not apply to innocent owners, nor shall it affect the rights of a holder of a valid lien.

The temporary transfer of a firearm shall not constitute a violation of this subsection if that firearm is transferred:

(1) while hunting or target shooting in accordance with the provisions of section 1 of P.L.1992, c.74 (C.2C:58-3.1);

(2) for shooting competitions sponsored by a licensed dealer, law enforcement agency, legally recognized military organization, or a rifle or pistol club which has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent in accordance with the provisions of section 1 of P.L.1992, c.74 (C.2C:58-3.1); or

(3) for participation in a training course conducted by a certified instructor in accordance with the provisions of section 1 of P.L.1997, c.375 (C.2C:58-3.2).

The transfer of any firearm that uses air or carbon dioxide to expel a projectile; or the transfer of an antique firearm shall not constitute a violation of this subsection.

j. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells, or disposes of a bump stock as defined in subsection ee. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 or a trigger crank as defined in subsection ff. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

k. Purchasing firearm parts to manufacture a firearm without a serial number. In addition to any other criminal penalties provided under law, a person who, with the purpose to manufacture or otherwise assemble a firearm and without being registered or licensed do so as provided in chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes, purchases or otherwise obtains separately or as part of a kit a firearm frame or firearm receiver which is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer or any combination of parts from which a firearm without a serial number may be readily manufactured or otherwise assembled, but which does not have the capacity to function as a firearm unless manufactured or otherwise assembled is guilty of a crime of the third degree. Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:1-8 or any other law, a conviction under this subsection shall not merge with a conviction for any other criminal offense and the court shall impose separate sentences upon a violation of this subsection and any other criminal offense.

As used in this subsection, "firearm frame or firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, such as the hammer, bolt or breechblock, action, and firing mechanism, and includes without limitation any object or part which is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and which may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means.

l. Manufacturing or facilitating the manufacture of a firearm using a three-dimensional printer. In addition to any other criminal penalties provided under law it is a third degree crime for:

(1) a person who is not registered or licensed to do so as a manufacturer as provided in chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes, to use a three-dimensional printer or similar device to manufacture or produce a firearm, firearm receiver, magazine, or firearm component; or

(2) a person to distribute by any means, including the Internet, to a person in New Jersey who is not registered or licensed as a manufacturer as provided in chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes, digital instructions in the form of computer-aided design files or other code or instructions stored and displayed in electronic format as a digital model that may be used to program a three-dimensional printer to manufacture or produce a firearm, firearm receiver, magazine, or firearm component.

As used in this subsection: "three-dimensional printer" means a computer or computer-driven machine or device capable of producing a three-dimensional object from a digital model; and "distribute" means to sell, or to manufacture, give, provide, lend, trade, mail, deliver, publish, circulate, disseminate, present, exhibit, display, share, advertise, offer, or make available via the Internet or by any other means, whether for pecuniary gain or not, and includes an agreement or attempt to distribute.

m. Covert or undetectable firearms. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of any covert firearm as defined in subsection hh. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 or any undetectable firearm as defined in subsection ii. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

n. Transporting a manufactured firearm without a serial number. In addition to any other criminal penalties provided under law, a person who transports, ships, sells, or disposes of a firearm manufactured or otherwise assembled using a firearm frame or firearm receiver as defined in subsection k. of this section which is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer, including but not limited to a firearm manufactured or otherwise assembled from parts purchased or otherwise obtained in violation of subsection k. of this section, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

amended 1979, c.179, s.7; 1980, c.108; 1981, c.480, s.2; 1983, c.58, s.2; 1987, c.228, s.3; 1990, c.32, s.3; 1999, c.233, s.3; 2007, c.298; 2013, c.111, s.1; 2017, c.323, s.3; 2018, c.38, s.3; 2018, c.138, s.3; 2019, c.165, s.3.
Click to expand...

See bolded section.
 
MEHavey said:
I asked for your statement of the basis of charges,
not the media's
Click to expand...
I didn't charge the accused.
If you want answers as to why he was charged, what he was charged with and don't like my answer or the medias.......do your own research or call the. AG in New Jersey.
It's 2021 and Google is easy.
 
d. Weapons. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or
disposes of any weapon, .... in the case of firearms if he is not licensed or registered to do so
Click to expand...
Quod Erat Demonstrandum (NJ)
k. Purchasing firearm parts to manufacture a firearm without a serial number.
Click to expand...
The PA trigger.... op. cit.
(No pun intended :neener:)


Thank you General Geoff

.
 
dogtown tom said:
Not really.
First, ATF doesn't get told nor is a report required when a customer is transferred a hundred identical AR lowers+ a hundred Mossberg Shockwaves+ a Glock 17 + a Century AK+ a Palmetto AR rifle...........so two hundred something guns and ATF doesn't know squat. Only when ATF comes to do a compliance inspection would they see that transfer.....and then only if the inspection was within a year of the transfer date.

When a licensed dealer transfers more than one handgun of any type to the same buyer in any five business day period, the dealer is required to submit a Multiple Sale report to ATF. Dealers in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California are required to do the same for Certain Rifles (semiauto, centerfire greater than .22 that accept a detachable magazine).

I submit at least three of those forms every week AND NOTHING HAPPENS 99% of the time. The only customers who were contacted by ATF was the buyer who picked up ten pistols at one time when he returned home after being out of the US for several months. ATF did ask if he was a collector or reselling. He offered to show them his collection and they made note and have never bothered him since. And since that visit I've submitted at least six more Multiple Sale reports just on him. The other customer bought four AKS as gifts for family. The guys who were never contacted? The guy who bought eight Ruger Single Six .22's for his groomsman, father and new father in law.

It's not just the number of firearms, its the type and frequency.
If ATF paid a visit to every guy who picked up two pistols or two AK's or two AR rifles the same day from the same dealer they wouldn't have time to sell guns to the cartels.




Freedom
Click to expand...

I agree, i have bought multiple pistols at once, different times. Never contacted. One time was 4 HP22a's for xmas gift, and for a while, i was buying 2 handguns at once, one for me and one for the wife. Never been contacted by the ATF. I also do a nics check 1 or 2 nics check a month, sometimes more.
 
Apparently NJ and PA have a compact to report these types of sales, as a NJ resident is prohibited by NJ state law from possessing these kits, period. The newspaper report says they were purchased by the NJ resident in PA, and somehow the wheels were set in motion to report it to NJ for investigation.

Based on the circumstances outlined in the article, I personally think this guy was already on the radar for making and supplying several of these guns to crooks in NJ. One was arrested and named him as their gun supplier to cut a deal. He was tailed by NJ authorities to the gun show in Allentown and was seen buying 13 more kits. He was tailed back and allowed to re enter NJ with the kits in hand, as the possession crimes kicked in when he was a foot past the border. He goes home, a search warrant is penned for the house and bango! The completed 80% lower AR build, the 13 incomplete P-80 kits and two over capacity limit AR mags were located. These types of investigation/observation, then arrest situations happen all the time (especially common with dope cases).

In my state, CA, it’s currently not illegal to buy or possess the P-80 handgun or AR lower 80 pct kits… yet. But a law like NJ’s goes into effect soon so it will be illegal just to have a kit, even if it’s untouched.

In a bit of amazing legal stupidity, for the time being you can still buy an ar-15 80 pct lower, petition DOJ for a serial number, when it’s ok’ed you have it engraved with the issued serial and your name and city, then you can legally finish the lower… to build a gun that has been basically banned here in stock form since the 1990’s.

But you’ll never get a DOJ serial number issued to you for a P-80 Glock Gen 3 handgun frame in order to legally finish it, even though you can go out and buy a brand-spanking new Gen 3 Glock 19 or 17 at any Glock-stocking gun store in the state. o_O

No one has ever said gun laws had to make sense. Here, and in NJ, they clearly don’t.

Stay safe.
 
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Riomouse911 said:
Apparently NJ and PA have a compact to report these types of sales, as a...
Click to expand...


Yes, Generals Gage, Cornwallis, and other subordinate officers had a unique method, a compact as it were, with King George to report firearms activities of those pesky colonists.

Riomouse911 said:
No one has ever said gun laws had to make sense. Here, and in NJ, they clearly don’t.

Stay safe.
Click to expand...

Never have, never will !
 
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Robbins290 said:
I agree, i have bought multiple pistols at once, different times. Never contacted. One time was 4 HP22a's for xmas gift, and for a while, i was buying 2 handguns at once, one for me and one for the wife. Never been contacted by the ATF. I also do a nics check 1 or 2 nics check a month, sometimes more.
Click to expand...

I have bought multiples several times and only got visited by the ATF once. I bought three similar pistols, 2 1911s and one Springfield XD. All in 45ACP. About 2 months after, a university official found me on campus (I was a student there at the time) and said there were some ATF agents who wanted to speak with me. I was offered university counsel, which I accepted. They asked me about the pistols. Citing make, model, caliber, date the transfer happened, and the FFL where I filled out the paperwork. They wanted to see the pistols but campus policy didn't allow me to store them on campus, so they were secured off. I only explained they were commemorative military pistols that my unit had ordered engraved. They started packing up when I mentioned that.

They had a sidebar question if I knew another student, which I did. And asked if I had any gun dealings with him, no I did not. I found out much later the other student (an exchange student from Africa) was offering tutoring in exchange for firearms as payment. From there I don't know what he was doing with the firearms to get ATF attention. If I had to guess, the ATF was investigating if I was involved in the other student. He went to prison for several years. In investigations like this, something like a multiple handgun form is one piece of a puzzle. By itself, it is nothing. But if it happens near where the alphabet agencies see illegal activity going on, that is when it might get looked into.
 
The horror. Of course the Stasi solution (excuse) is it's better unzip the 2A from 330M+ US citizens and Founding Fathers than to subject their tyranny to any threat.
 
I don’t agree with banning them outright as the state has done.
Carl N. Brown said:
ATF often sees purchase of as few as two identical guns as suspicion of buying for resale, dealing in firearms without a license (FFL).

I might buy one handgun kit to make a gun for my own use. But thirteen? What's the point of that? Seriously.
Click to expand...
Buying 13 would put me right on target if I bought one for each room, each of shop/sheds/barns, and vehicles.
 
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