Viability of *Real* Pocket (And Micro) Handguns in Today’s World

In the State of Florida, the lighter and smaller the firearm is, the more likely concealed carry permit holders are to have a weapon on their person. The lightweight clothing worn by most people in Florida makes it difficult for most of them to carry a heavy weapon. Many men never wear belts which are often needed to carry large or metal frame firearms. Jackets that are frequently necessary to cover or conceal guns are worn maybe a few weeks a year. From anecdotal reports, many concealed carry holders have carried the small firearms mentioned, with some of them only branching out to larger calibers with the introduction of the 365, Glock 43, Hellcat, DB9 and the like.

Once I realized I could carry my Glock 26 in the same place I was carrying my Seecamp, I quit carrying the Seecamp.

Personally, Ive always seen the "little" guns as a second or third line back up to a full size primary, and carried as such. Ive just always carried a full sized handgun, year round, and never found it a problem.

Ive carried a number of the guns in your list over the years, but never as a primary. I consider the smaller "compacts", like the 26, 365, etc, to be the back ups these days, and the 26 is one of those rare instances where it could fill in as a primary, due to its mag interchangeability with the larger guns in its family.

Better than a sharp stick if only due to slightly more reach...

To me? I have long subscribed to the old line, the gun you have always beats the "better one" you left at home. I have carried over 4 decades now. In that time I have only met a couple others who always carried a "serious" gun, all the time. One was a guy who carried a Mod27. No matter the weather, he carried it. Good on him. Almost no one will do this. They will at times have nothing if they do not own a "mouse gun". So, is it worth having nothing rather than the "mouse gun"?
Now I would certainly not choose to only have the mouse gun. I LOVE my 1911's. There are times I will not pack one. I do ALWAYS have something though unless I have to walk through a metal detector.

SterlingBullet said:

Many men never wear belts which are often needed to carry large or metal frame firearms.

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"Florida man goes mostly nekkid for weeks, nobody notices, video at 11!"

My LC9 weights less than my combined wallet, keys, pocket flashlight, and Leatherman do, so it really isn't that much of an existential struggle to carry. If you're so scantily prepared that you don't have those, then I guess it's reasonable to skip the gun, or replace it with a pea shooter.

Once you advance past the modern equivalent of a grass skirt and flipflops, it's not too hard to carry a small 9mm.

mcb said:

Better than a sharp stick if only due to slightly more reach...

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That's pretty much what I always say. A 22 pocket pistol is like a 30 foot pointed steel rod for stabbing attackers. (but way easier to carry)

With 40 states offering CCW and open carry becoming more common, the idea of an ultra concealable gun lacks much purpose now. Another factor is that we have learned there are minimum standards of velocity and foot pounds of force, which put even the .38 under question. There may be some locations or metros where exposing a concealed gun would create issues with "Man with a gun!" calls or possibly employment termination - yet those are already problematic. If someone is looking to get rid of you, one excuse or another will do.

Keeping in mind that our right to keep and bear "arms" is not limited to firearms - the original meaning included all the edged weapons and blunt force strikiing instruments of the day, which gun owners tend to ignore. Canes, swords, knives, blackjacks, etc were common for a reason then, a one shot pistol with unreliable ignition wasn't always the primary carry piece. In an office situation, gas station, or fast food, I'd be well armed with a walking stick vs a .32. We have just lost our public awareness and knowledge of how they work.

You can't have guns on an airplane, but a rolled fiberglass cane 17 layers with a stainless head isn't fluff. I've used one and kept it for later in life. A small handgun in a pocket won't be as fast on the draw, and at typical ranges, the stick would be faster.

I've moved on from blowback pocket guns like the Beretta 21A (.22 LR) and NAA Guardian (.32 ACP). The Guardian is smaller than the 21A, but so much harder to shoot.

I still carry pocket guns in .32 ACP and .380 ACP, but both are larger than the Guardian and Beretta. Pocket guns the size of an LCP or KelTec will always be good sellers. They are just so easy for common folks to carry that can't or won't carry something larger.

My favorite pants' pockets are large enough for a Glock 43 or Ruger LC9s in Sticky holster.
That lets me standardize on ammo. I have .32, .380, and .38 but they don't get out often any more.

Its possible to conceal a G19 in shorts and a T shirt if you want to.

even with the expansion of ccw permitting and constitutional carry, true mouse pistols have a role, certainly for me anyway. there are numerous times and places where my ccw must be absolutely unobtrusive for social, not legal, reasons. this is my world, others’ worlds may be different.

what i like:
naa bugout, 22lr, cv revision grips are a must, goes everywhere.
taurus pt25ply, 25acp, poly frame easily allows slide to be racked for a fresh & fast mag reload.
keltec p32, 32acp, hogue grip sleeve, ten round spare mag in other pocket.

what doesn’t work for me as a deep ccw:
naa guardian 32 acp, built like a brick outhouse but less pleasant to shoot than the keltec p32.
bond arms derringer, too heavy & unwieldy for pants pocket, but ok on the waist or in a jacket pocket.
any five shot j frame revolver is already too big.

some other considerations:
situational awareness.
being able to choose when & where one ventures to avoid likely threats.
ability to quickly palm a small mouse piece, to have it ready but unbrandished.

The heaviest thing in my shirt pocket would be my cellphone, I’d figure out alternate carry for an LCP, a neck holster has always intrigued me.

Mr. Mosin said:

I’m referring to truly tiny handguns in various .22 rimfire cartridges, .25 Auto, and .32 Auto. The Baby Browning, NAA Guardians, Seecamp, NAA mini revolvers, pocket Berettas, etc; maximum size of about the Ruger LCP (original). Block 42, Sig 365, etc are exempt from this discussion, mainly due to size and caliber. I’m referring to handguns that will readily fit in a shirt’s breast pocket.

In today’s environment, with today’s offerings; is the spectacular concealment capability worth the trade-off in cartridge, capacity, and handling ?

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This is a double barrel 2 shot .380 "cell phone" gun that's about the size of a Samsung Galaxy. Most people wouldn't look twice at it clipped to your belt or stuck in a shirt pocket.



It would seem they also make them in a 9mm.

bdickens said:

Its possible to conceal a G19 in shorts and a T shirt if you want to.

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This man speaks the truth and that is coming from someone in FL.

I can't see the reason to go below a pocket 380 LCP / P3AT and that would be for when one can't do better, work clothes for example.
Its hot and I don't feel like carrying bigger than a pocket 380 in a "good area" is not an example of can't do better, that is unwilling.

Hady guideline, and it is completely independent of location:
22lr/32 - stopping attacker(s) ASAP is not a priority
380 - better than nothing, but that is not a criteria we use by choice.
9mm - decent minimum

Preemptive disclaimer, cause if I don't invariably somebody will quote and "correct" me:
My comments do not include someone limited physically or by skill.

edwardware said:

trackskippy said:

Once I realized I could carry my Glock 26 in the same place I was carrying my Seecamp, I quit carrying the Seecamp.

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Once you advance past the modern equivalent of a grass skirt and flipflops, it's not too hard to carry a small 9mm.

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I agree.

Mr. Mosin said:

In today’s environment, with today’s offerings; is the spectacular concealment capability worth the trade-off in cartridge, capacity, and handling?

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We went from Glock 17/19/26 to G22/23/27 and added Shield 9mm and TCP 738 .380 to give us smaller "pocket" carry options.

After much consideration, my current sentiment is I would prefer to have full-size magazine spares that Glock 26/27 and other subcompact pistols offer.

The way I see it, G26/27 with full-size G17/22 spare magazines require slight concealment consideration while providing greater cartridge terminal ballistics of 9mm/40S&W, capacity, shootability and accuracy over other "pocket" pistols in 22LR to .380Auto.

I tell you ... I have done panic mag dump with TCP 738 at 7 yards and had difficulty keeping my shots in tight group at "Center of Mass" but have no problem fast "point shooting" G27 at multiple targets at 10-15 yards.

And yes, in "today's environment" chances of multiple threats to engage could be a reality for many defenders.

I carry either a Beretta 950 in 25acp or a S&W 442. Both in my front jeans pocket. I would never consider carrying a gun in my shirt pocket.

I carry an LCPII with pocket holster in the breast pocket of a padded flannel shirt very often.

It's one of my "go to" carry options for cooler weather.

The regular/lower coat pockets that you often keep your hands in is another good carry option for me.

I'd prefer not to have to wrestle something out from underneath my coat in a bad situation.

My own recent actions answer the question. I used to carry a Ruger LC9s or a Ruger LCPIi depending in what I was wearing and the level of need for deep concealment. I also open carried a Ruger Security 9 Compact when hiking PA’s State Forests. Now the only gun I carry is the Security 9 Compact either OWB or IWB. Mostly I have the 15 round magazine in it, but when I have to avoid printing o use the ten round flat based magazine. I decided on 9mm only with a minimum of 10 + 1. No more pocket guns or lower than 10 round guns for me.

Although we do variations of this thread at least monthly, I'll speak to the OP's question. My answer is an emphatic NO.

Mr. Mosin said:

is the spectacular concealment capability worth the trade-off in cartridge, capacity, and handling ?

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Only a person with very minimal handgun experience and zero formal training would ever believe that the concealment capability is worth the trade-off in cartridge (assume size), capacity and handling. As far as "spectacular?" Carrying a mousegun in a pocket is nothing I'd use spectacular as an adjective to describe. Anyone who'd believe it so has never tried to access a firearm in a pocket in a hurry when something unexpected occurs instantaneously. Good grief, people, are some of you totally unwilling to even try to conceal a more effective handgun?

LiveLife said:

I tell you ... I have done panic mag dump with TCP 738 at 7 yards and had difficulty keeping my shots in tight group at "Center of Mass" but have no problem fast "point shooting" G27 at multiple targets at 10-15 yards.

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Apparently, some people have strangely never experienced this phenomena.

Mr. Mosin said:

How *you* do it is absolutely and totally irrelevant to this thread.

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Yes it is, and since you asked the question -- as basically soliciting opinions -- someone's experience with pocket pistols absolutely is relevant.

I carry a Seecamp 32acp as a backup and a High Standard 22 Mag derringer as a backup to the backup.

Mr. Mosin said:

In today’s environment, with today’s offerings; is the spectacular concealment capability worth the trade-off in cartridge, capacity, and handling ?

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A question. ^
My answer was an expounded "no".

Mr. Mosin said:

Before this goes *any* further, let’s clarify some stuff...
2. Your way is not the only way, nor is your way the only right way. What works for you may very well not work for someone else.
3. How *you* do it is absolutely and totally irrelevant to this thread.

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Apparently, did not like answer. ^

Given the overwhelming success rate of defensive-gun-use in general (+/- one million incidents each year), and the lower-than-minuscule percentage of those incidents that resulted in failures that can be directly attributed to weapon caliber, I'd say small guns do indeed have their place in self-defense. Since 2008, when I started back into this passion, I've found perhaps five accounts of defensive shootings (by otherwise law-abiding persons targeted for robbery or rape) that failed to stop the initial attacks. Two of those were with 9mm-chambered handguns, one was with a .38 caliber snub revolver, one was with a revolver in .22lr, and the caliber in the one more I can think of I do not know.

Out of between 15 and 20 million DGU incidents (likely far more, actually) over that time period, I'd say the success rate is pretty high, and more than a few of those users were glad they had their firearms with them.

Mr. Mosin said:

In today’s environment, with today’s offerings; is the spectacular concealment capability worth the trade-off in cartridge, capacity, and handling ?

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Short answer is no but if it's all you got go for it...