Can the 1911 experts PLEASE explain this?

I would take pictures for my own records of it's current condition inside and out, and ask Colt or your smith if they want it as is or cleaned. They'll probably check the frame and internal parts to see if they fall within specifications.

It's a "used" gun. Who the heck knows what was done to it.? I doubt Colt would cover it under warranty,

Yes, clean it. Take it apart. 1911s are pretty simple, maybe you can find the gremlin. Still to weird to comprehend. There has to be "more"

I don't know how Colt is today, but almost exactly 5 years ago I sent in my used Colt Junior for a recall. Pistol was made in 1973 and the recall was posted in 1984. Colt took care of me 40+ years later and not original owner...

I think a whole series of range tests are needed to try to figure out if the pistol is still safe for carry (I wouldn't use it anymore anyway).
First of all it is necessary to understand if, with the thumb safety engaged, the gun can fire. Test it by pulling the trigger with both the grip safety engaged and not. The thing the thumb safety is not that positive is not a good sign.
Then I would try to chamber a cartridge from the hold open position and then remove it from the chamber to inspect the primer.
I would also try to understand if the half cock is able to stop the hammer, by dropping the hammer with the trigger at rest (better to do this test with the weapon unloaded).
If you don't feel like doing these tests, I would send the pistol to Colt accompanied by a letter detailing what happened and leave it to them to check that there are no safety issues related to the pistol.
In any case, after such an experience, I would completely change the type of gun. I wouldn't feel psychologically safe anymore.

I would first look at the slide, to see if the firing pin block is installed.

ontarget said:

I have tried everything I can think of to replicate the situation.....

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Have you tried it with the gun in the holster? It was a part of all this.

If the holster caused the gun to fire, I think you were extremely lucky. Maybe your spare tire and maybe your clothes worked for and against you there (slowed the hammer/depressed the GS/moved the gun/pulled the trigger, etc). I dont see how there would be a dimple in the primer otherwise.


Some things that keep bugging me are....

That dimple in the primer. Doesnt seem that should be there if the FP safety is working. And if it was working, then the trigger was depressed and then something severely retarded/interfered with the hammer blow.

If the hammer jumped the sear, why didnt the half-cock catch it. Unless somehow the trigger was being depressed, or its been sheered off. Do you have half cock?

If the trigger wasnt depressed, and the hammer hit the firing pin, and the FP safety is working, why is there a dimple in the primer.

The dimple normally isnt an issue or concern, and you see that a lot with guns without a FP safety. The fact you see it with a gun that has one, seems wrong to me.

Lock the slide back empty and push on the firing pin with a punch. See if the firing pin can protrude from the breach face. It should not. If it does its not doing it's job.

edited to add:

The only way I can get the hammer to drop in the holster is if the gun pushes up high enough to allow the holster to press the trigger.

You were able to make this happen as a test? Get rid of that holster - no proper holster should cause the trigger to be pressed under any conditions.

ontarget said:

I am sure the FP block is working, half cock is good, and the TS and GS are good.

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As long as you're making the trip to the 'smtih, ask him to remove and inspect the firing pin and the firing pin blocking plunger for evidence of contact between the two. If there is damage as shown in the picture below, ask him to replace the parts and particularly to replace the plunger lever (not shown in the pics) with one that will push the plunger up sooner and higher.

If you look carefully, you can see damage on the firing pin caused by it smacking into the blocking plunger. What was happening is that the plunger was not fully up and out of the way of the firing pin when the hammer dropped.

Here you can clearly see the ragged edge damage to the blocking plunger. It looks like a beaver has been nibbling all around it. Once this damage is severe enough the plunger will become stuck in its hole. It'll be a real joy trying to get it out. Before it reaches the stage of getting jammed, the trigger pull will become increasingly heavier as the peened metal rubs against the walls of the hole.

Safety off? Maybe... Hammer down too? Primer dented? There isn't a scenario or multiple failures I can think of with a series 80 that could cause that without a finger involved. Whatever it was, you're lucky.

Have the smith double check the plunger tube, and replace it if not correctly staked. Then check for a positive engagement with the TS. Alway alway on a Colt, first part replacement for me. It should never sweep off.

For all of these safety failures to happen simultaneously has to be what, one in millions? Yea, I’m buying a lottery ticket!

CoalCrackerAl said:

But when i carry cocked and locked. I put the strap from mine over the hammer.

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Whenever practical (while hunting, for example), when carrying a 1911 pistol in Condition 1, I want a holster that permits having the strap positioned between the hammer and the slide.

SwampWolf said:

Whenever practical (while hunting, for example), when carrying a 1911 pistol in Condition 1, I want a holster that permits having the strap positioned between the hammer and the slide.

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Yeah that is what i meant. The strap being between the hammer and slide.

Your scenario sounds insane to me, series 70 it's crazy, or Series 80 even more so. I've seen cartridges with lighter strikes than that that are spent. I'd ditch the platform altogether as a carry-piece. If you never discover what the problem is, which is likely the case at this point, then how do you know you ever fixed the said problem?
The answer for me: I'd carry something else.
I'd never feel comfortable carrying it again after that, regardless what work is done to it.
I personally only carry striker-fired weapons IWB or OWB-concealed. Anything with a hammer stays outside any clothing in the open. Last time I carried a 1911 it was in condition 3 during a deer hunt. (If I had to finish one off up close)

ontarget said:

The only way I can get the hammer to drop in the holster is if the gun pushes up high enough to allow the holster to press the trigger. That could be exactly what happened. It would only take about a half inch of lift, and my spare tire pushing on the GS.
View attachment 1036189

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Could you explain that more?

Are you saying that the pistol could ride up in the holster enough for the edge of the leather to get squeezed into the trigger guard and the the pistol coming back down causing the leather edge to trigger engagement?

Steve in Allentown said:

Is the pistol a Series 80? If yes, then the firing pin safety mechanism prevented a negligent discharge but it needs to be tweaked to prevent any movement of the firing pin if this should happen again. The Series 80 firing pin safety should prevent any contact between the firing pin and the primer unless the trigger is pulled.

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This would not be a negligent discharge but an accidental one.

That gun is almost certainly defective.

Palladan44 said:

If you never discover what the problem is, which is likely the case at this point, then how do you know you ever fixed the said problem?
The answer for me: I'd carry something else.
I'd never feel comfortable carrying it again after that, regardless what work is done to it.

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It’s a machine like any other. I wouldn’t get rid of a vehicle if it stalled once and I could never repeat the failure. Unlike an automobile, the 1911 is rather simple, the prints are available and dimensions known to smiths who work on them.

The reason I bring up the thumb safety, 3rd time now: the chain of events started there as evidenced by it being in the fire position. A loose plunger tube (or damaged/worn detent/detent spring) can allow it to slip down. At that point slide is no longer locked and fire control system is unlocked EXCEPT by Series 80 FPB.

Now if such a slip happened around the time the pistol was being holstered, the OP may not have noticed as he was 1. Gripping the pistol (disabling the grip safety) and pressing the trigger against a floppy holster (disabling the FPB and telling the pistol to fire).

Only thing left in this scenario is why he saw a light strike rather than a full one on the primer.

Skylerbone said:

It’s a machine like any other. I wouldn’t get rid of a vehicle if it stalled once and I could never repeat the failure. Unlike an automobile, the 1911 is rather simple.

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Didn't say "get rid" of, I said just no longer carry.
And old automobiles begin to get unpredictable.....you fix this, you fix that, then you're good for awhile.....then broke down on the side of the road again.....I ain't got time for that, nor time to ask questions as to why my gun almost took my leg off, or worse. I also won't let a dog bite me more than once (or at all if possible). I suppose it's a personality thing, and more of a personal standpoint on this one. I have zero tolerance for certain things.
....This wasn't a FTF or FTE, but rather an ABMFLO.
No thank you.

Also, simple physics apply........
Take stored potential energy, and block it by 3 mechanical barriers.....the stars aligned where your 3 mechanical barriers somehow failed and/or were actuated/deactivated.....

How about a weapon where there is no stored potential energy at all? The potential energy is in your trigger finger, if you so decide to apply that potential energy into the weapon system to begin energizing the firing pin...... makes much more sense to me.

Palladan44 said:

Also, simple physics apply........
Take stored potential energy, and block it by 3 mechanical barriers.....the stars aligned where your 3 mechanical barriers somehow failed and/or were actuated/deactivated.....

How about a weapon where there is no stored potential energy at all? The potential energy is in your trigger finger, if you so decide to apply that potential energy into the weapon system to begin energizing the firing pin...... makes much more sense to me.

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Palladan44 said:

I personally only carry striker-fired weapons IWB or OWB-concealed.

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Almost all striker fired guns have stored potential energy since most have either a partially or fully cocked striker, and most are blocked by fewer mechanical barriers than a Series 80 1911.

I'm not arguing against your personal choice of firearm, just clarifying the issue of stored potential energy and safety devices. Everyone is free to choose what they like, having accurate information on those options make their choices easier.