I have read a bunch of threads on "First Presses" recently, maybe because events of the last year have raised ammo prices, maybe because people have more time, maybe it is a trend toward preparedness or self sufficiency.
I have an RCBS single stage and a Lee Classic Turret (4 hole) and I was recently pondering a progressive press but alked myself out of it. For me, since I load multiple calibers and I have no need to load a lot of any one type of ammo super fast it just does not make sense to move away from what I have.
So why write this (novel - sorry) up?
Well, partially because I wanted to review (for myself) my reasoning for staying with a combo of a SS and a Turret, and partially because I was hoping some progressive users would chime in and provide their thoughts (pros and cons) of progressive presses, and partially because I wanted to give a little food for thought to new re-loaders who might be pondering what to get for their first press.
Executive Summary
Turret is faster then Single stage
If I could only have one press "I" would probably still buy a Single Stage because I like to shoot rifle at distance (I think I personally make more accurate ammo on an SS)
If I only shot 9mm and .223, I would only have a turret, and if I shot a lot of it, I would probably buy a progressive (or two) and set them up to volume reload
I learned on a single stage, batch mode, my process has been to go to the range, shoot, collect brass, bring it home and throw it in a tumbler to clean it up. I don't usually deprime first, because I use walnut to clean and it was always getting stuck in the flash hole, and tbh, it does not really clean the primer pockets well anyway.
Once cleaned, I would de-prime with a universal de-priming die, then clean the primer pockets by hand with a primer pocket tool (tried several - Lee, RCBS, Lyman) I like the RCBS with brushes best I guess, but they all work. At this point, if it is pistol, it goes in a ready to reload bucket, and Rifle gets thrown in a ready to trim bucket.
Trimming I do by hand right now, lee case cutter on an old 12v ryobi drill and the lock stud goes into a bench vice, then I cycle through my brass that I need to trim. I am seriously considering a "case prep" solution if you have a recommendation as this seems to be the most tedious part of my process.
For the record, I still primarily reload rifle, 6.5, 30-30, 243, etc on the single stage, i think, and I may be wrong, that it has a more solid foundation, aka, when I seat the bullet, they all stay pretty much the same length, not a lot of movement, etc. This feels more accurate to me, more repeatable. With the turret, probably because it rotates, there is some built in slop IMO so I feel it is not the best way to load for accuracy, especially when reaching out to any significant distance, although even at a couple hundred yards changes in velocity can affect my accuracy if I am shooting paper, steel, not so much i guess.
At this point when using an SS, it is all pretty much the same process for both on an SS, so back to my process,
Start with 50 pieces of brass
A. Resize and prime all 50 rounds (on press), inspect primer, then case goes in a bullet tray, Change Die
B. Powder through expanding die to add powder (funnel on top of die). I weigh every load, i know this seems like overkill to some, but, my method is to set my Lee Perfect Powder measure to the desired weight (check a dozen or so to get my rhythm, then put a powder pan on the scale, tare it to zero, move pan to LPP, drop a charge into a powder pan, put it back on the scale to make sure it is where I want it to be, if light, I will trickle a little in, if heavy, I will trickle a little out of the pan into a "dish" that I can use to trickle powder in if needed, pour the powder from pan into the funnel on the die, tap the funnel a time or two with the pan, look in the brass to check powder and put it into a second bullet tray. Change die
C. Set and Seat bullet (seat and crimp if I don't have an FCD for caliber), Change die if I have an FCD
D. Crimp (if I have an FCD)
E. wipe the round off with a cotton rag to remove any lube, finger grease, etc and put in my ammo box x 50 rounds.
For pistol and .223 (AR range fodder), I use the turret, set up the dies where I want them, and do the exact same steps above only, every time I pull the handle the turret rotates to the next step and I skip the number of times I am handling the brass, putting it in a tray, etc
A. Pull handle to resize and prime on press, lift handle to rotate,
B. pull to expand, get charge, weigh, drop in funnel, tap, lift handle to rotate
C. look n case to verify load (flexible light set up to see), set bullet on brass and pull handle to seat (seat and crimp if no FCD), lift to rotate (twice if I don't have an FCD to get back to stage one),
D. Crimp with FCD if available, lift handle, remove round, wipe off with rag and put in ammo box.
E. Repeat A-D
The turret is faster for me which is why I use it for pistol and .223 ammo, my son, wife, and I will shoot up several hundred 9mm, .380, .223, at a range session so this is where the bulk of my reloading is done (Range ammo) and the only reason I really bought a Turret press.
My wife and son do not go to the range as often as I do, and when I go, I shoot rifle for accuracy on most days, and may, on a good day go through 100-150 rounds of 6.5 or .223 target in a few hours. so in 2-3 hours on the press and I can replenish my rifle ammo.
So, that is my process and why I own both an SS and a Turret press. If I were shooting a lot more 9mm or .223 I would consider a progressive or two set up in those calibers, but I have had no issue keeping up with reloading (especially during this "crisis" of the last couple years where we don't shoot as often). I have a question below on Squibs (myth maybe but something I heard or read somewhere)
Questions:
What is your process?
Is there something you think I should change in mine to be more efficient?
At what point (volume per week or month) do you think it becomes worthwhile to get a progressive, or is there some other factor I am not considering?
I think I can shave a bit of time off my rifle reloading with a case prep station, so, that is where I am probably going to invest next - any recommendations?
Last - myth or reality - (knock on wood - I have never had a squib from one of my reloads) since progressives move so fast and are so automated, is there really a higher likelihood that you will haver a short powder dump that could result in a Squib using a progressive?
Dave
I have an RCBS single stage and a Lee Classic Turret (4 hole) and I was recently pondering a progressive press but alked myself out of it. For me, since I load multiple calibers and I have no need to load a lot of any one type of ammo super fast it just does not make sense to move away from what I have.
So why write this (novel - sorry) up?
Well, partially because I wanted to review (for myself) my reasoning for staying with a combo of a SS and a Turret, and partially because I was hoping some progressive users would chime in and provide their thoughts (pros and cons) of progressive presses, and partially because I wanted to give a little food for thought to new re-loaders who might be pondering what to get for their first press.
Executive Summary
Turret is faster then Single stage
If I could only have one press "I" would probably still buy a Single Stage because I like to shoot rifle at distance (I think I personally make more accurate ammo on an SS)
If I only shot 9mm and .223, I would only have a turret, and if I shot a lot of it, I would probably buy a progressive (or two) and set them up to volume reload
I learned on a single stage, batch mode, my process has been to go to the range, shoot, collect brass, bring it home and throw it in a tumbler to clean it up. I don't usually deprime first, because I use walnut to clean and it was always getting stuck in the flash hole, and tbh, it does not really clean the primer pockets well anyway.
Once cleaned, I would de-prime with a universal de-priming die, then clean the primer pockets by hand with a primer pocket tool (tried several - Lee, RCBS, Lyman) I like the RCBS with brushes best I guess, but they all work. At this point, if it is pistol, it goes in a ready to reload bucket, and Rifle gets thrown in a ready to trim bucket.
Trimming I do by hand right now, lee case cutter on an old 12v ryobi drill and the lock stud goes into a bench vice, then I cycle through my brass that I need to trim. I am seriously considering a "case prep" solution if you have a recommendation as this seems to be the most tedious part of my process.
For the record, I still primarily reload rifle, 6.5, 30-30, 243, etc on the single stage, i think, and I may be wrong, that it has a more solid foundation, aka, when I seat the bullet, they all stay pretty much the same length, not a lot of movement, etc. This feels more accurate to me, more repeatable. With the turret, probably because it rotates, there is some built in slop IMO so I feel it is not the best way to load for accuracy, especially when reaching out to any significant distance, although even at a couple hundred yards changes in velocity can affect my accuracy if I am shooting paper, steel, not so much i guess.
At this point when using an SS, it is all pretty much the same process for both on an SS, so back to my process,
Start with 50 pieces of brass
A. Resize and prime all 50 rounds (on press), inspect primer, then case goes in a bullet tray, Change Die
B. Powder through expanding die to add powder (funnel on top of die). I weigh every load, i know this seems like overkill to some, but, my method is to set my Lee Perfect Powder measure to the desired weight (check a dozen or so to get my rhythm, then put a powder pan on the scale, tare it to zero, move pan to LPP, drop a charge into a powder pan, put it back on the scale to make sure it is where I want it to be, if light, I will trickle a little in, if heavy, I will trickle a little out of the pan into a "dish" that I can use to trickle powder in if needed, pour the powder from pan into the funnel on the die, tap the funnel a time or two with the pan, look in the brass to check powder and put it into a second bullet tray. Change die
C. Set and Seat bullet (seat and crimp if I don't have an FCD for caliber), Change die if I have an FCD
D. Crimp (if I have an FCD)
E. wipe the round off with a cotton rag to remove any lube, finger grease, etc and put in my ammo box x 50 rounds.
For pistol and .223 (AR range fodder), I use the turret, set up the dies where I want them, and do the exact same steps above only, every time I pull the handle the turret rotates to the next step and I skip the number of times I am handling the brass, putting it in a tray, etc
A. Pull handle to resize and prime on press, lift handle to rotate,
B. pull to expand, get charge, weigh, drop in funnel, tap, lift handle to rotate
C. look n case to verify load (flexible light set up to see), set bullet on brass and pull handle to seat (seat and crimp if no FCD), lift to rotate (twice if I don't have an FCD to get back to stage one),
D. Crimp with FCD if available, lift handle, remove round, wipe off with rag and put in ammo box.
E. Repeat A-D
The turret is faster for me which is why I use it for pistol and .223 ammo, my son, wife, and I will shoot up several hundred 9mm, .380, .223, at a range session so this is where the bulk of my reloading is done (Range ammo) and the only reason I really bought a Turret press.
My wife and son do not go to the range as often as I do, and when I go, I shoot rifle for accuracy on most days, and may, on a good day go through 100-150 rounds of 6.5 or .223 target in a few hours. so in 2-3 hours on the press and I can replenish my rifle ammo.
So, that is my process and why I own both an SS and a Turret press. If I were shooting a lot more 9mm or .223 I would consider a progressive or two set up in those calibers, but I have had no issue keeping up with reloading (especially during this "crisis" of the last couple years where we don't shoot as often). I have a question below on Squibs (myth maybe but something I heard or read somewhere)
Questions:
What is your process?
Is there something you think I should change in mine to be more efficient?
At what point (volume per week or month) do you think it becomes worthwhile to get a progressive, or is there some other factor I am not considering?
I think I can shave a bit of time off my rifle reloading with a case prep station, so, that is where I am probably going to invest next - any recommendations?
Last - myth or reality - (knock on wood - I have never had a squib from one of my reloads) since progressives move so fast and are so automated, is there really a higher likelihood that you will haver a short powder dump that could result in a Squib using a progressive?
Dave