I need to see how many XTPs I have left. I may push it up to and perhaps beyond the Hornady max load. I’ll definitely keep below the Lyman max of 14.9. I don’t know if I’ll be able to handle the recoil so that will be the limiting factor. I want to have a full box of 50 to load up as standardized loads.
357 load development and casual observations
- Thread starter AJC1
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BJung
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I found my last target testing 11.5gr Blue dot. The distance was 15 yards.
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![IMG_2811[1].JPG](/data/attachments/989/989253-787180d6383c9d4d5bcaf389ab7b88a6.jpg)
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AJC1
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I am almost that high with cast. I only stopped because I was deep in jacketed territory. With an xtp if you work up I think you can safely get there. 2400 seems very well mannered. #9 seems equally civilized and 4227 is finally cleaning up at max.
Bazoo
Member
We'll I ain't done nothing in the 357 world lately.... Until tonight. I cast a mess of lee 358-158-swcs.
I plan to work up three or 4 loads with it. A bullseye 38 special load. A bullseye light 357 load. A unique medium 357 load. And a full power 357 magnum with 2400.
The bullet is a bit deeper in the case than a 358156, so I'm not sure about a h110 load, since it's so fickle. But I might get frisky there too.
We'll see.
Forgot to mention, I been keeping up here and I appreciate the thread folks.
I plan to work up three or 4 loads with it. A bullseye 38 special load. A bullseye light 357 load. A unique medium 357 load. And a full power 357 magnum with 2400.
The bullet is a bit deeper in the case than a 358156, so I'm not sure about a h110 load, since it's so fickle. But I might get frisky there too.
We'll see.
Forgot to mention, I been keeping up here and I appreciate the thread folks.
BJung
Member
Here's a little project I'm working on and didn't have time to shoot my last test loads to confirm whether a .38WC seated in a .38 Special case so the OAL is the same as a .38 wadcutter seated in a .357 case. For me, the initial test with a model 66 printing a cloverleaf at a 15 yard distance made me think "hmmm?" The bullet is closer to the forcing cone. Also, the bullets on the left are Dardas bullets and those on the right and printed on the target are Lee cast bullets.
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I shoot the Hornady HBWC out of 357 cases with excellent accuracy. I haven’t tried them from 38 cases since I didn’t have any.
I have a few now but I may just find a different load for them. Has anyone tried the Hornady lead semi-wadcutter or hollow point version? I’m torn between them and the Acme 158 grain SWC. The Acme can be pushed faster for 357 loads and in bulk are cheaper than the Hornady.
I have a few now but I may just find a different load for them. Has anyone tried the Hornady lead semi-wadcutter or hollow point version? I’m torn between them and the Acme 158 grain SWC. The Acme can be pushed faster for 357 loads and in bulk are cheaper than the Hornady.
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AJC1
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Aren't all the big companies selling swaged.... I would prefer a cast from one of the smaller outfits like Missouri. I have a ton of boxes marked zero that dad left behind. They seem to shoot decent.
Seedy Character
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I like the Hornady LSWC. Especially the .429 - 240gr.
It is a good thing I like them. I bought a blind box, at an estate auction. It had 1900+, in new boxes. Think my $7 bid was a good deal. There was other stuff in the tote, too.
It is a good thing I like them. I bought a blind box, at an estate auction. It had 1900+, in new boxes. Think my $7 bid was a good deal. There was other stuff in the tote, too.
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BJung
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Swaged and hollow based wadcutters are said be more consistent and therefore more accurate.
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AJC1
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I would disagree in the hollow base, a nessary technique for muzzle loaded firearms but tested in current firearms along regular wad cutters provide no advantage. I would also tend to disagree with them being more consistent based on my own personal casting experience. In 150 class bullets I can hold a .3 grain tollerance and then sort if I need a tighter group.
BJung
Member
AJC1. As a BP Shooter would a flat base slug shoot as accurately as a Minie' Ball? I tend to cast but there's a skill set required to pour. Yet, from what little I've read, swaged bullets are somewhat like playdoe vs cast is more like and upside down softie ice cream cone of molten lead swirled into a cavity. The alloy is important too. I don't know about BP casting whether it only takes pure lead or a slight alloy of maybe tin?
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AJC1
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BP is almost pure and is soft to promote proper opteration. They also use very soft lube. The mini ball is a superior design for muzzle loading rifles.
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Bazoo
Member
Round balls are pure, but minies and bpc bullets traditionally had a minimal amount of tin for better fillout. I've read bout it, but darned if I can remember where now.
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AJC1
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Well after three trips I have settled my loads for true blue. The 154 noe cast gets 8.8 grains, and my rcbs 180 sil takes 7.2 grains. I haven't made it to the big range at mciver since getting the carbine so no long range testing. Really I was working for safe indoor plinking loads. I don't intend to get any more of this powder but it does go into the book as worked up.
I counted out the XTPs I had left and have enough to try a couple more increments up to 14.5 grains. If the groups keep shrinking I’ll probably go as high as I can stand recoil wise. I feel I’m approaching the point where the groups open up or recoil degrades my ability to shoot the gun.
Bazoo
Member
I'm working on refining a shooting technique for testing. Of late I've been setting on the ground, back rested, and my left knee for support. It ain't great but not bad either. For 357 or heavier 44 special or up, my carpal tunnel flares up if I shoot from a bench or rested such that I take the recoil more straight. Offhand, or field positions like that, it ain't too bad and I can go a while.
Bazoo
Member
I did get some of them lee c358-158-swcs loaded up in 38 special cases. 3.5/3.8/4.0 bullseye. Mmmmm plinking loads.
See what groups best and load a couple hunnerd.
Next, a light magnum, same bullet, same powder, same bat reloading press.
See what groups best and load a couple hunnerd.
Next, a light magnum, same bullet, same powder, same bat reloading press.
Shivahasagun
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I finally got to test my Ramshot Enforcer .357 mag load with 13.9 grs.
CCI SPP OAL 1.573 in 158 gr XTP JHP Colt King Cobra new model 3 inch barrel.
Average was 1058 fps with an ES of 57 fps. Meh. Was hoping for 1075-1100 fps but this is it.
But honestly recoil was heavy enough that it's starting to slow down my split times and I caught myself doing a flinch resulting in a less-accurate shot now and then.
Muzzle blast was not extreme and cases extracted just fine.
It does make me wonder what a 125 gr XTP would be like at about 1150 fps.
I also tested some .357 mag case reloads using 700X, CCI SPP, OAL 1.57 in, 158 gr #1 Ranger Missouri RNFP (Hard for this light load at 18 BRN) and Lee .5 CC dipper. Just heaping everything I could into and onto the dipper and not even worrying about flakes on the neck. This results in 3.8 grs and through the same Colt 3 inch gave me an average of 781 fps and an ES of 55 fps. They actually felt a bit warm and the velocity was a little less than I felt it was going to be.
It is a very simple and fun way to load practice ammo.
CCI SPP OAL 1.573 in 158 gr XTP JHP Colt King Cobra new model 3 inch barrel.
Average was 1058 fps with an ES of 57 fps. Meh. Was hoping for 1075-1100 fps but this is it.
But honestly recoil was heavy enough that it's starting to slow down my split times and I caught myself doing a flinch resulting in a less-accurate shot now and then.
Muzzle blast was not extreme and cases extracted just fine.
It does make me wonder what a 125 gr XTP would be like at about 1150 fps.
I also tested some .357 mag case reloads using 700X, CCI SPP, OAL 1.57 in, 158 gr #1 Ranger Missouri RNFP (Hard for this light load at 18 BRN) and Lee .5 CC dipper. Just heaping everything I could into and onto the dipper and not even worrying about flakes on the neck. This results in 3.8 grs and through the same Colt 3 inch gave me an average of 781 fps and an ES of 55 fps. They actually felt a bit warm and the velocity was a little less than I felt it was going to be.
It is a very simple and fun way to load practice ammo.
I’d like to try a load I could just run with the Lee Dippers. That would simplify things a bit just for practice ammo.
I loaded up a set of tests with HS-6 and a 125 grain Hornady XTP. I found some HS-6 and it seemed like it would work in all the handgun calibers I reload: 9mm, 357 Mag, and 38 Special. I’m hoping to save the rest of my 2400 powder for cast rifle loads but I’ll finish out my supply of 158 grain XTPs first.
This was a load of HS-6 for the magnum cartridge with just under 11 grains max. Data is from Hodgdens web site. I tried a total of six charges spanning pretty much the whole range of charge weights from them.
None of the loads were bad. However as charge increased, group size decreased again. The best shooting load was the highest charge weight, grouping 4 shots into about 1.25”. This is close to the best of the other 357 mag loads I’ve tried, which all range from 1.03” to 1.25”.
However, they all have quite different impact points. The sights are set for the 158 HBWC load at 10 yards. At 25 yards these are a little high, maybe an inch or so. The 158 grain XTP load shoot 4” high and 2” right. The HS-6 load shoots centered but 4” lower than the HBWC load.
Clearly I will have to make a decision on what I want to use. The point of all this, as well as my 9mm testing, was to give me options that work with components that are available.
I’ll probably cool it for a while now on 357 mag loads. I have a good loads for target, midrange, and true magnum power levels. Now I have some 38 brass so I guess I’ll start there next.
I loaded up a set of tests with HS-6 and a 125 grain Hornady XTP. I found some HS-6 and it seemed like it would work in all the handgun calibers I reload: 9mm, 357 Mag, and 38 Special. I’m hoping to save the rest of my 2400 powder for cast rifle loads but I’ll finish out my supply of 158 grain XTPs first.
This was a load of HS-6 for the magnum cartridge with just under 11 grains max. Data is from Hodgdens web site. I tried a total of six charges spanning pretty much the whole range of charge weights from them.
None of the loads were bad. However as charge increased, group size decreased again. The best shooting load was the highest charge weight, grouping 4 shots into about 1.25”. This is close to the best of the other 357 mag loads I’ve tried, which all range from 1.03” to 1.25”.
However, they all have quite different impact points. The sights are set for the 158 HBWC load at 10 yards. At 25 yards these are a little high, maybe an inch or so. The 158 grain XTP load shoot 4” high and 2” right. The HS-6 load shoots centered but 4” lower than the HBWC load.
Clearly I will have to make a decision on what I want to use. The point of all this, as well as my 9mm testing, was to give me options that work with components that are available.
I’ll probably cool it for a while now on 357 mag loads. I have a good loads for target, midrange, and true magnum power levels. Now I have some 38 brass so I guess I’ll start there next.
GeoDudeFlorida
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FYI I weigh every load I throw from a dipper. It doesn't matter how repeatable the dip or how forgiving the powder, I like to know what's in the case, for sure. But, that's just me.
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AJC1
Member
38 plinking with 3.0g of tg is accurate with a 158 and very mellow in a 357. My son loves that load. I find it boring.
3 grains of W231 was the most accurate with a HBWC, but I haven’t tried Titegroup or Bullseye. I’ve at least seen Titegroup on a shelf, I just don’t need 8 lbs of it. This load is my card playing load when at the range.
I need to try some in 38 cases so I can load up the rest of my XTP magnum loads.
I need to try some in 38 cases so I can load up the rest of my XTP magnum loads.
Shivahasagun
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I weighed a few but it didnt vary much at all.
The most I could possibly heap onto the dipper was 3.8 gr. If I shorted a few at 3.7 or 3.6 it wont hurt anything. These are just practice loads. Using dipper only, weighing a couple, pouring through the die on a Lee turret, is a pretty fast way to do 50-100 rounds. It's even safer than a dropper. Of course 700x doesn't do well with a dropper anyway.
For something like the 13.9 gr of Enforcer. 357 158 gr load I use a dipper, trickler, and weigh each load carefully.
BRatigan
Member
I don't have a chrono. I just use group size and pressure signs so far, sorry. At 50 yrds they are just point and shoot. Very tight groups.
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AJC1
Member
Honestly pistol groups are way more about barrels and skill than powder. I have a stock and an aftermarket glock barrel, and shooting them back to back at the range, showed how bad a stock barrel is for target work. I still need to cronograph all of my loads when it warms up enough to go to the outside range. Finally got a tripod to hold my meter.
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