Ya better get an attorney

He posted a screen shot of the letter. A lot of stuff wrong with the letter.

What is a "forced reset trigger"?

Mrgunsngear has a good YouTube video channel. Interesting and informative.

wally said:

What is a "forced reset trigger"?

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Well I don’t know exactly how the mechanism works but it’s a type of trigger that is under some sort of tension (maybe spring loaded) so once you pull it to fire it forces itself forward again and resets so you can pull it again without having to actually release the pressure you are applying with your finger.

so basically you can pull the trigger multiple times without having to actually releasing it because it has a “forced reset”

You need one finger action per shot, a device that makes your finger action faster than you can make it happen is a “forced” action.

That’s what they want it to mean.

what is a ...?

...a trigger that is very similar to...the one in YOUR gun . If it is in any way a mod from standard ''mil spec''

Here they (want to) come again, I am watching this issue and this thread, thank you all for any added info.

Your best bet is to watch a video on how a M16 trigger works and how the FRT works.

Bump fire stocks, "arm braces", binary triggers,etc, etc. I don't think "we" do ourselves any favors when we try to find technicalities and workarounds to skirt NFA laws. If you want a SBR, fully auto, etc. then go through the application process or lobby Congress to change the law. And before someone replies with "shall not be infringed", let me remind you we lost that battle back in 1934.

Gun4Fun90 said:

but it’s a type of trigger that is under some sort of tension (maybe spring loaded) s

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No. It doesn’t actually ‘reset’ the trigger like that. It uses, and requires, a full auto bolt carrier to function. For all practical purposes it’s a safety sear.
The BATFE is a roque, out of control agency that needs to be reigned in, but they have a good chance of making this one stick.

So, three days later...have any of this letter's threats been verified?

Sounds to me like someone(s) is playing games here, it reeks of "Urban Myth". I would not have passed that e-mail on without complete verification and there are organizations/individuals trying to find out if it's true or not.

Here's some clarifying information:

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/01/atf-raids-force-reset-triggers-additional-info-updates-corrections/

Appears there is some truth (as with many urban myths) but it's been taken and exaggerated/fabricated.

The circuit courts "deferred" to the ATF to make the decision on these triggers because they felt the ATF was the most knowledgeable entity. Deference is often used by courts when the justices don't feel they know enough about the condition or they don't want to take the effort to learn and research. They simply went with what the non-elected ATF had to say.
This will most likely end up in the Supreme Court for a final decision.

Plan2Live said:

Bump fire stocks, "arm braces", binary triggers,etc, etc. I don't think "we" do ourselves any favors when we try to find technicalities and workarounds to skirt NFA laws. If you want a SBR, fully auto, etc. then go through the application process or lobby Congress to change the law. And before someone replies with "shall not be infringed", let me remind you we lost that battle back in 1934.

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On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing to keep them busy with. These triggers are kind of like bump stocks, not very practical for the everyman. If they didn't have these triggers to contend with your tax dollars would be used to screw with the stuff people actually care about. Let's them look like they are doing something about the "problem". JB can have it worked into his SOU address as a big win in his war against gun owners.....

About every two years someone cooks up something like this, be it a slide fire bump stock or multiple types of trigger mechanisms.

I think it’s only a matter of time before a law is passed banning anything that is designed or capable of mimicking fully automatic fire in any way. The currrent NFA definition is easily skirted and is easy fodder for loopholes and they really don’t like that.

Dear everyone:

FOLLOWING THE LAW IS NOT A "LOOPHOLE".

Sincerely, Non-hypocrisy.

JohnKSa said:

Sounds like it operates like a bump stock with a return spring installed in it. We already knew those were illegal.

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Doesn't appear to have a return spring from what I saw.

But it seems to require a full auto bolt carrier so there's that.

JohnKSa said:

I didn't mean to say that it had a return spring,

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Ahhh. I see that, now.

This is no urban myth. The mfg was raided and all the retailers who bought them are/will be raided. If you bought one, you will be getting a knock on your door soon.

For what its worth, if they go for this, they'll probably sweep up anything with trigger slap. So watch out, owners of AKs, and CZ75's with the original trigger.

About my above shout, sorry for the drama. Johnksa is certainly right about the collateral damage. One thing about "loopholes", is that many don't know to keep up with the events. If we looked at traffic the way we look at gun laws, we would be calling driving a side street to avoid construction a "loophole". But sometimes those side streets lower their speed limit or put up "local access only" posting in response. Same thing, its legal, but not everyone keeps up, and if its hidden from them, then they're a victim of the system.
But this thing.... Anyone who saw the original "authorization" knew this was coming. Having your own lawyer say "Its not illegal, but they think it is, and will come for it" isn't a great sign. Of course that's not an exact quote, but something to that effect.
They've been illegal here in Wa since day one, so I never took an interest beyond their Lawyer Letter.

mjsdwash said:

For what its worth, if they go for this, they'll probably sweep up anything with trigger slap. So watch out, owners of AKs, and CZ75's with the original trigger.

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I don't think this is the case at all. If you keep constant pressure on a CZ or AK and get trigger slap, you still have to consciously release pressure on the trigger then reapply pressure before the gun will fire again.

The FRT forces the trigger into the reset position in spite of your pressure on the trigger to the rear, then allows the trigger to move rearward again once the bolt has gone into battery. The pressure your finger exerts on the trigger is constant, just as the pressure exerted on a full auto trigger is constant. The only difference is the amount of trigger movement during the action cycle period.

As a thought experiment, tie one end of a string around the trigger, tie the other end of the string to an appropriate weight that will activate the trigger, load the rifle, point the rifle vertically so that the weight pulls the trigger back, and see what happens.

With the FRT, the gun will continue to cycle until the ammunition is exhausted, although the weight will bob up and down. It is my belief that the ATF will contend that since constant pressure on the trigger results in more than one shot, the FRT constitutes a machine gun.

Rare Breed (and Wide Open Triggers, another FRT manufacturer) contend that since the trigger was forced forward into the reset position, the subsequent rearward movement of the trigger after the bolt goes into battery and releases the trigger locking bar constitutes a separate function of the trigger as defined by 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b).

Here is an animation of Rare Breed's FRT in action, so you decide for yourself if the shooter is making one function of the trigger, or separate actions for each shot fired.

danez71 said:

Doesn't appear to have a return spring from what I saw.

But it seems to require a full auto bolt carrier so there's that.

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The Fostech Echo trigger also requires a full auto bolt carrier.