Why Aren't More People In South Carolina Open Carrying?

Plan2Live said:

So my question is this, if so many people in South Carolina were chomping at the bit to pass open carry legislation, why aren’t more people in South Carolina open carrying?

Yes, I am aware that the Bill that passed is a compromise Bill but that does not negate my question.

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Because the fact of the matter is that very few people who carry want other people to know they're carrying. That, and the fact that decades of concealed carry only has kind of made people more comfortable with concealed carry overall than would otherwise be had we had legal open carry for a few decades.

North Carolina is an open carry state, and has been for a good, long time. But you just don't see that many people open carrying in NC. Yes, I've seen a few, and actually know a few of them. But it's not hugely prevalent.

According to one website I looked at when I googled "SC concealed carry permits, number of", there are 308,406 active concealed carry permits in the state. There are 5,259,222 SC residents as of this posting.

That means about 1 out of every 17 people on average have a CWP. Out of those, many will not be carrying routinely, most will carry concealed when they do, and a small fraction will carry openly.

Those demographics will vary from region to region for a variety of reasons.

If you assume one out of every 100 with a CWP open carry, that means about 1 out of every 1,705 people on average will carry openly.

tinhorn said:

Hypothetical question--do you think that Karens would be calling the cops if they were more used to seeing guns in holsters? Perhaps we should start acting as if gun ownership was normal.

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That's a standard argument for open carry that I don't agree with. Guy in my town regularly showed up at Starbucks with an AR15. Just my opinion based on no facts whatsoever, but I don't think it helped calm down the Karens.

hdbiker said:

Open carry is the best way I know of to lose control of your weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I disagree.
Plenty of concealed carriers lose their handgun every time they go potty.

Control of your firearm has a lot to do with the type of holster you use. Belt holsters are easy to find with retention features that make it difficult to remove without the correct method.

"Bad guy snatches gun from belt holster" isn't a very common headline.
vs
"Concealed pistol carrier drops gun in WalMart"....which happens more than it should.

Racinfan83 said:

Become the first target if something bad were to happen?

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Don't be silly, the bad guys won't notice an openly carried gun nearly as quick as they would see guys walking around in open, untucked Hawaiian shirts or "shoot me first" vests, Glock shirts, 5.11 pants, etc., right? Those guys are always getting clipped when something bad happens.

I live and carry in SC, never openly, but I find this law really added more places that prohibit guns altogether. To me that means I have to dress to conceal and that even that isn't good enough anymore in lots of new places with their new signs posted.

JoeHenry said:

Before I begin (having just turned 75) what is a Karen? Don’t laugh you will get old too.

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Hahaha--you've only got a few years on me, old timer. This is a "Karen", someone who has never heard of an in-waistband holster, who cannot mind her own business, and thinks that her anxieties should be everyone else's problem. Saw this on another site just this morning. (Weymouth, Massachusetts--not very far from me.)

dogtown tom said:

I disagree.
Plenty of concealed carriers lose their handgun every time they go potty.
.
.
.
"Bad guy snatches gun from belt holster" isn't a very common headline.
vs
"Concealed pistol carrier drops gun in WalMart"....which happens more than it should.

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This is so easy to avoid, too.

When you drop pants and underwear, pull the waist band of your underwear over the holstered pistol.

This keeps the pistol snug up against your leg the entire time.

Easy-peasy.

edwardware said:

Because the State still claims you need a hall pass, from the State, to exercise that right.

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Then it's not a Constitutional carry state. Otherwise, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" which means no restrictions or requirements for legal carry. If your state recognizes that then it's a Constitutional carry state. If your state does not fully recognize that then it's not a Constitutional carry state but instead something else.

God Bless,
Ralph

Ralph III said:

Otherwise, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" which means no restrictions or requirements for legal carry.

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Technically, there are no Constitutional carry states. ALL states have laws that disallow the carrying of guns on some level. Most/all disallow carrying of guns by folks under 18. Many do not allow the carrying of pistols by people under 21. All have certain, legally specified areas where they do not allow citizens to take guns. They all follow federal law that doesn't allow people under 21 from buying handguns. Infringement occurs regardless of the lip service we give to "Constitutional carry" which really isn't.

jdc1244 said:

Because requiring a permit or license to carry a concealed firearm is likewise Constitutional, in no manner violating the Second Amendment.

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I absolutely disagree that it "in no manner" violates the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment says "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". Infringe means to "encroach upon or defeat, frustrate..." which is in fact what many states attempt to do with such laws.

Any law which places conditions upon your right as a legal citizen to keep and bear legal arms is simply an infringement upon your Constitutional right. It's a fact that some states use permits and ccw license requirements to restrict legal gun ownership and legal carry by American citizens. I cannot travel to New York with my legal firearm and numerous states do not recognize my ccw license. This is what the Constitution, being federal law, is supposed to protect against. In addition, while you may not find $60.00 or $130.00 for a ccw license as being overly burdensome, many other people may indeed find it to be so.

Now I agree the Second Amendment should not be without limitations, even though it was written as such; because I don't think you should have the right to carry a fully automatic firearm or such. So in this respect there needs to be limitation on exactly what can be carried for the time/era. Any law which seeks to restrict your ability as a legal citizen to carry, is an infringement. And it will continue to be used as such by politicians and certain states. It will also continue to be fought at the Supreme Court level. So be careful not to relinquish your rights and others and be careful to recognize when laws can be used for that. Otherwise, what good is a ccw license and how has it ever stopped a criminal from using his gun for criminal activity?

Ralph

Plan2Live said:

So my question is this, if so many people in South Carolina were chomping at the bit to pass open carry legislation, why aren’t more people in South Carolina open carrying?

Yes, I am aware that the Bill that passed is a compromise Bill but that does not negate my question.

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OC requires a level of dedication beyond which most people are willing to accept.

Double Naught Spy said:

Technically, there are no Constitutional carry states. ALL states have laws that disallow the carrying of guns on some level. Most/all disallow carrying of guns by folks under 18. Many do not allow the carrying of pistols by people under 21. All have certain, legally specified areas where they do not allow citizens to take guns. They all follow federal law that doesn't allow people under 21 from buying handguns. Infringement occurs regardless of the lip service we give to "Constitutional carry" which really isn't.

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See my response to jdc1244. Just like Free Will there is no such thing as Absolute Free Will.

I would consider any state that allows legal ownership and carry of a firearm without the requirement of a license to be Constitutional carry or at least faithful to the Constitution. I'd even consider a state that requires a permit or ccw license to be within the Constitution; IF the cost were minimal/zero and the process easy/quick. Because such would not represent a burden to the vast majority of Americans.

I would not consider age limits and the type of gun you carry and certain restrictions on where you carry to be outside of the Constitution. Of course there needs to be some regulations in that regards.

Ralph

‘Constitutional carry’ is an example of the aspirational/political second amendment; as the term implies, it’s about the second amendment as a matter of politics, not the law.

As to the thread topic, people support the idea of open carry in theory, but not so much in practice.

It’s just generally not very practical. Karens are calling the cops and running in horror with their horrid little children wrapped in their arms. Chads are calling the domestic terrorist hotline and shakily ordering their Soy Mocha Chai. Johnny Law is probably torn between thinking you’re a hassle-in-waiting or future gun theft victim. Most other people in suburban and urban environments probably think it’s “kinda weird” and concealed carriers are probably smirking.

Open carry has a place. Generally, it’s out in the open. Or in rural communities where hoplophobia hasn’t taken root, people don’t necessarily immediately associate “gun” with “crime”, and where guns are more likely viewed as tools and recreation. I’ll open carry hiking or on horseback in the woods. But I’ll probably avoid the fellow open carrying in Walmart. Particularly if he’s wearing a tutu…

Ralph III said:

See my response to jdc1244. Just like Free Will there is no such thing as Absolute Free Will.

I would consider any state that allows legal ownership and carry of a firearm without the requirement of a license to be Constitutional carry or at least faithful to the Constitution. I'd even consider a state that requires a permit or ccw license to be within the Constitution; IF the cost were minimal/zero and the process easy/quick. Because such would not represent a burden to the vast majority of Americans.

I would not consider age limits and the type of gun you carry and certain restrictions on where you carry to be outside of the Constitution. Of course there needs to be some regulations in that regards.

Ralph

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Saying states are "Constitutional carry" and citing "shall not be infringed" when all of the states are infringing is just self deception. Funny how we are apt to consider things we like as not infringing when they absolutely are infringing.

Double Naught Spy said:

Saying states are "Constitutional carry" and citing "shall not be infringed" when all of the states are infringing is just self deception. Funny how we are apt to consider things we like as not infringing when they absolutely are infringing.

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The Supreme Court has never allowed that the 14th Amendment applies to States, i.e. the Bill of Rights applies to States when they say it does and then only specific articles, one by one. There have been rulings that were favorable to gun rights but nothing to cause any profound changes across all States. Rulings are always to achieve the desired outcome and not always actually based in any law or bound by an honest reading of the Constitution...but perhaps stare decisis, honoring past rulings.

Double Naught Spy said:

Saying states are "Constitutional carry" and citing "shall not be infringed" when all of the states are infringing is just self deception. Funny how we are apt to consider things we like as not infringing when they absolutely are infringing.

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The same can be said for freedom of speech. Obscenity (not pornography) is not protected. Inciting overthrow of the government by force of arms (sedition) is not protected speech. Tobacco companies have not been able to advertise on TV for many years. And those are just a few ways "free" speech is infringed. But, we still have a constitutional right to "free speech." No right is without some restriction.

And, for some reason, many posters refer to statutorily authorized carry (open or concealed) by states as constitutional carry. They are not. A statute can be changed overnight. A constitution cannot.

My state (Kentucky) has had a constitutional right to bear arms for defense of self and organized defense since our first constitution in 1792. There was later added a proviso that amended the state constitution and exempted concealed carry from that constitutional protection. But the legislature then enacted a statute mandating "shall issue" concealed carry licensing about 25 years ago. A while back, it enacted another statute allowing concealed carry without a license. The legislature can take away concealed carry before they adjourn later this month. Not so with a true constitutional right.

In Oklahoma, while in stores, I think I have noticed open carry twice. Both were 1911s in leather holsters. It isn't uncommon to see motorcyclists open carrying though. Not sure why. Maybe "some people" mess with the riders? I have a hard time imagining anyone confronting somebody for open carry here. I have a hard time imagining that anybody gives a rat's ass. (I remember once at work, at the end of a safety briefing for about 35 people, somebody said, "just curious, who has concealed carry permits?" Almost the whole room raised their hands. I don't mean like 18 or 20, I'm talking 32 or 33.) I never once saw anybody say anything to anyone about masks/no masks either though. Maybe I just hang out in friendlier and more polite places.

Missouri has had an open carry law for a few years and I have seen one or two folks openly carrying. I am in favor of open carry, but I think there should be a requirement for a safety course first. I'm all for exercising our 2A liberties but we also need these folks to have discipline, safety and responsibility.
Incidentally I live in a state that will never pass open carry.

From my perspective, the best thing about living in an open carry state is not having to worry about printing or having a gust of wind lift your cover garment.

Sistema1927 said:

From my perspective, the best thing about living in an open carry state is not having to worry about printing or having a gust of wind lift your cover garment.

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The problem in SC now is that places where you can concealed-carry are more limited than before.

I’m starting to see more open carry people more often. I especially see “concealed” carry people who don’t mind printing or the barrel sticking out. I am sometimes in that category. Most people don’t notice either in my opinion.

Double Naught Spy said:

Saying states are "Constitutional carry" and citing "shall not be infringed" when all of the states are infringing is just self deception. Funny how we are apt to consider things we like as not infringing when they absolutely are infringing.

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Virginia was constitutional carry for open carry for a long time. There were simply now laws at the state level. A few localities banned it until state level preemption was passed. That was was repealed and Viginia is now a patchwork of gun control.

Plan2Live said:

So my question is this, if so many people in South Carolina were chomping at the bit to pass open carry legislation, why aren’t more people in South Carolina open carrying?

Yes, I am aware that the Bill that passed is a compromise Bill but that does not negate my question.

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Because they don't want or need to? Maybe they don't feel like they live in a place where they need to be ready to defend themselves with lethal force most of the time? To the extent that it doesn't even occur to them to want to?

I know I don't feel that I am in enough danger where I live to carry a gun, concealed or openly. I would not want to live in a place like that, and most places are not like that.

And if I did feel the need to carry I would not open carry unless it was pretty much a war zone; otherwise, it would feel like I was wearing a couple of $20 gold pieces on a neck chain. "Hey, sneak up behind me, clonk me on the head, and you get this fabulous prize!". In any urban setting (which is where I live), open carry by a civilian makes little practical sense to me.

On the other hand, if it's legal, and people want to do it, fine. I am just not surprised that not many people want to do it. I think that speaks well for the state of law and order in South Carolina, despite what fear- and hate-mongers may say to the contrary (about SC or any other state in the USA).

All just my opinion, of course. If someone can show that South Carolina is a nonstop hellhole of crime and violence, then I will admit my mistake.

In reply to the OP's question, I would assume peer pressure and community dynamics come heavily into play.

In regard to many replies based on open carry where available I'm a bit surprised.

As an Indiana native and resident, my state has issued me with a LTC.(License To Carry) Shall issue and lifetime.

The LTC doesn't differentiate form of carry.

What surprises me most is that I witness open carry almost daily, while so many in other states find this to be rare.