I'm Not Sure, But Maybe I Want An AK

I've seen on Gunbroker a Zastava underfold for about $800. Then a Sporter Zastava PAP for $729.
So, in that range, give or take for the low end pricing.

Same place, I've seen Century Arms AK's go for $600 on up.

I had a Zastava AK before, well made. Just a tad heavy for my needs, and the stock didn't quite fit me. I have to have a rifle that fits my shoulder.
Guess that's why I still have my M1 Carbine.

WrongHanded said:

How much is a reasonable price for a WASR-10 though? The way I understand it, imported AKs get some sort of "adjustments" made to them before they hit the US market. I must admit, I don't really understand what's going on with the imports, or how different brands through various distributors compare to each other.

I think I'll be getting a hands-on look at a Zastava later this week. But I don't know who imports them, or what modifications are or are not done by the distributor. I asked a the LGS about some AKs and was told, "these are Centuries, that is an Arsenal."

Is Arsenal a brand of AK, or just a distributor? How about Century? I've now gained just a little knowledge about the WASR-10 and Zastava (is it the M70? Or are there different models?), but I certainly don't have a clear picture of the AK market as a whole.

The most frustrating part of owning an AK might be figuring out which one to buy, and then getting my hands on it for a "reasonable" price.

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Because most of the AKs on the market are imported, the market is constantly changing. Import restrictions change here, export restrictions change in the home country, wars will divert commercial sales to military sales, etc...

The WASR is imported from Romania with a single stack magazine well due to some laws. They are then modified to allow it to use a standard AK magazine. Sometimes Century screws this up, but it's usually able to be fixed. I had one when I was 19 that had a mag well that was so tight it was practically unusable. Luckily my best friend's dad is a machinist and he fixed it for me. Also with the WASR you want to look for canted gas blocks and front sights. Some cant is considered normal but sometimes they will be canted enough to make sighting in impossible. That being said, the WASR is a good rifle.

The Zastava rifles are good and imported from Serbia. Just know that some come without chrome lined barrels, if that is a problem for you.

OP, you had some questions I will try to answer to the best of my abilities:

WASRs generally imported with a single stack magwell and opened up to double stack by Century unless something has changed in recent years. They are gtg, can be ugly, but will run as good as any other AK. Only 2 main things to typically check for, mag fit and canted sites. $900 give or take will get you a brand new WASR.

Century is BOTH an importer and manufacturer. Imports by then are fine, see WASRs. Made by Century…….RUN AWAY! They are trash.

Arsenal is a Bulgarian manufacturer generally regarded as top tier. Be careful as they can have issues with canted sites and poor paint/finishing jobs. Their milled rifles are still the cream of the their crop, the newer stamped ones are where the QC issues have been. Prices can range from $1500 to close to $2000 for new models.

Zastavas are imported by their US counterparts, Zastava USA, made in Serbia. The current production ZPaps are bulked up with budged trunnions and thicker stamped receivers (1.5mm v. 1mm most stamped receivers are). They are currently the best overall value and can be found sub $1000.

WBP and FB Radom are Polish imports of superb quality (some say better than OG Russian rifles). Currently considered the best of current imported AKMs in traditional setups. Prices from $1300 to $1500 if I recall correctly.

IWI Galil Aces are Israeli, not sure if they are fully manufactured there or here in the US. Regardless, they are considered the absolute top tier AK “style” rifle and a further development/evolution of the traditional AK. Prices around $1800 give or take unless on sale.

Chrome lined barrels tend to last longer and not corrode as easily. Cold hammer forged chrome lined is what to look for.

WrongHanded said:

Are chrome lined barrels particularly desirable? And if so, why?

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The chrome lined barrels will let you shoot the steel jacketed projectiles in the cheaper steel cased ammo. It normally called BiMetal rounds or may not say anything about being steel jacketed. The steel jacketed ammo will wear out non chrome lined faster.

Arsenal QC has fallen on the milled rifles too(see my photo on the first page) Chrome lined bore and chambers were needed for throat erosion in FA guns, not sure if we need them in our semi autos, but people want them. The new line of Zastava rifles do come with chrome lined bbls. Can’t say that I’ve ever heard of steel case ammo wearing out a non chrome bbl faster, I’m sure rate of fire will cause it though.

OP: Have you watched his results in some guns after 2,500 or 5,000 rds? He trained many years ago in the Polish Army, and knows such 'exotic' weapons.

He has Numerous videos. checks headspace and bolt lugs at different intervals, while also Limiting barrel temperature. If he suspects that lugs or lug channels are wearing prematurely, he shows us the component, then he keeps a closer watch on a possible issue.

Some of that is 'work hardening', you realize.

Rob has tested a WASR to 10,000 rds. Search Youtube.
If something in that Specific WASR had failed, this "10,000..." would not be IN the title, would it?

Best AK For Money Paid: Zastava ZPAP Z70 improved - 5000 Rds Final! - YouTube

Dont discount a Norinco, if you stumble on one-though a lot of sellers seem to think they deserve a premium for some reason.....
Most do have chrome-lined bores and 1.5mm receiver stampings. There are even some milled receiver variants floating about out there.
My MAK90 and NHM90



They also produced a "Poor Mans RPK" with a longer barrel and semi-permanently mounted bipod (but lacking a reinforced trunnion). This is the NHM91 version-

This example has the US-made Bishop thumbhole stocks, but the one I had wore a proper clubfoot. One of the dumbest gun-related things Ive ever done was selling that rifle.

Milled MAK90s are solid!

Ethan Verity said:

My dislike for the AK only increased when I actually tried one...

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Glad to hear that you went into it with an open mind and no preexisting prejudices...

JDGray said:

Milled MAK90s are solid!
View attachment 1066025

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Very nice! Dont see too many slant-cut receivers with wood stocks, did you add them?

While Im on the subject of stocks n stuff......

AKs are not anywhere near as Lego-esque as ARs. While some parts will pretty much universally swap between manufacturers, many will not. New, replacement stock sets are purposefully made oversize and will likely need some sanding and trimming to fit. Norincos came with either slant cut or straight cuts to the rear receiver and Yugo guns have a longer front handguard with 3 slots instead of 2. The pistol grip nuts can be quite different too between makers.

The 3 different stamped receiver thicknesses (1mm, 1.5, and 2) also cause some incompatibly issues with various parts. Some guns have threaded barrel trunnions and some are just pinned. Not all gas blocks interchange and even the top covers come in a maddeningly wide array of styles and sometimes wont swap.

So, bottom line, no matter what gun you end up with, be cautious when ordering parts and accessories- try to order as close to an exact match as you can, but expect that some fitting and tinkering may be necessary.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

Very nice! Dont see too many slant-cut receivers with wood stocks, did you add them?

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I swapped out the Chinees Chu wood thumbhole stock for Ironwood Design AKM furniture, to look like a Polytech Legend.

valnar said:

...This was my choice. Love my Vz.58's.

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Yeah, i kinda went full circle and returned to vz 58. Originally o got it because its cheapest rifle option here (CZ, 700 USD now) and had some issues which originally make me feel like its not worth it to upgrade it more.
But as time went and i made some low-costs upgrades (paracord on stock, stock-anti-wable-device...) while i was looking for more up-to-date weapon system, i did find out that my requrments are already fullfiled by vz. 58. Currently even thinking about second one - CSA (i think its Czech point in US) with short barrel, since original one is just too long with compensator

The Czechpoint vz rifles are very nice ( and currently somewhat in stock at Atlantic ). Very accurate, reliable and build quality is excellent. I have 2 of them and other family members also own them. No troubles at all. A go-to rifle.

Idahou said:

Yeah, i kinda went full circle and returned to vz 58. Originally o got it because its cheapest rifle option here (CZ, 700 USD now) and had some issues which originally make me feel like its not worth it to upgrade it more.
But as time went and i made some low-costs upgrades (paracord on stock, stock-anti-wable-device...) while i was looking for more up-to-date weapon system, i did find out that my requrments are already fullfiled by vz. 58. Currently even thinking about second one - CSA (i think its Czech point in US) with short barrel, since original one is just too long with compensator

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14.25" with pinned FH You can easily swap to any Vz58 stock set up you like.

Nice setup.
I did plan to use zhukov stock but fact that price here is more than third of gun made me think that it will be better to get some all new gun. On other hand - with just paracord and homemade adjustment a made that wire stock good enough

Only thing what bothers me now is lower handguard - i like that beaver barf one, but its worn on edge so its moving little bit and so far all attempts to secure it failed agter time
Btw, its surplus remade by STV

And yeah, my camera is just bonkers - its software issue

WrongHanded said:

I've been watching some of the AK Operator Union videos of YouTube recently. Yep accuracy isn't amazing, but he seems to hit those torso sized plates out to 300 yards with iron sights pretty consistently (unless he's editing videos to remove all his misses, which is possible I suppose).

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I would bet a case of ammo that Robski would not do that. I have found that the accuracy of the Romanian AK-74 is very amazing, and more accurate than an AR I once had. The Romanian AK's were also chambered in 5.56, but I don't know if they are around anymore, or what they go for.

I also have no interest whatsoever as to mounting optics, or any other doo-dads on a combat rifle.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

AKs are fun, and certainly good rifles for barely trained conscripts to drag through the dirt and mud and still have a fair chance of being effective against other poorly trained conscripts- but would I grab one to go to war if an AR were available? No way.

Now, all that said, I LIKE AKs and have had a bunch, Chinese, Egyptian, Yugoslav...... They were all reliable, and possessed adequate accuracy for hitting a man-sized target out to 200yds. Bench rest target guns, they were not.

The cheap ammo was definitely a plus.

Now, they pretty much just sit in my armory as "emergency war stocks" unless I'm going shooting with a buddy who really wants to say he shot an AK just like in whatever video game.

They have become a rather expensive way to punch paper none too precisely.

If you accept them for what they are, and just want something different from all the ARs out there, go for it. Can they be pressed into SD/HD/SHTF service? Yes, of course- but the AR is a more serious choice for this these days.

PSA dont make junk. I think you will like them. Pretty much all of the imports are serviceable enough too, although Romanians are well known for canted fron sight posts and sometimes rough conversations from single-stack mags.

Avoid Centurys (CAI) and any home kit builds and odds are you'll be fine.

Good luck!

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Well, from my limited experience NIGHTLORD40K is pretty much on point. My Egyptian Maadi AKM serves its porpoise: it is an essential addition to my growing collection of military firearms from around the world, it is fun to shoot, it is completely reliable on any ammunition and under almost any conditions (Only way I found to foil the rifle was to put thick mud in the receiver with the bolt back.) and accuracy is acceptable. Back in "The Day" they only cost $300 and dirt cheap ammo was everywhere. However, for now it sits in the armory with it's stack of ammo cans. It is too expensive to go shooting just for fun or punching paper but can be called to action in a SHTF situation. It isn't a Galil or a FN LAR but it is a functioning piece of history that reliably goes bang. Ammo prices will go down, eventually, and we will be able to go out and shoot for fun again.
And that is my 4¢ worth.

Robski is a current US Army sniper. One of the National Guard units. I have a friend that is in his unit. The guy can shoot.

Funny thing about the AK and SKS. I've shot both at 500 yards, and it is not that hard to hit a torso size target. 500 yards is not really difficult, but shortly after that it gets difficult. And of course I'm not talking about groups, but rather keeping hits, most of the time on a people size target. And that's with iron sights.

WrongHanded said:

So you've got preferences that don't line up well with the AK. Same for me with the AR actually.

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I should have realized it earlier by your profile name, but I see you're left handed. That actually makes 100% sense now why you would prefer the AK setup over an AR-15.