Calling All Western Hunters: Advice Please!!

I guess I qualify as a mid-western hunter..

Even here in KS, 500-600 is a long ways. I've made shots to 500+ on game, but I prefer not to do it. Conditions, to include my rest, have to be pretty much perfect as IMHO there's too many things that can go wrong. ToF, plus reaction time gives an animal a chance to move. Add that to normal probable errors (not on a bench I'm a 1+ MOA shooter, with a sub-MOA rifle) and wind and it's not something I'm willing to chance.

IF that's the range their telling you to get ready for, I'd focus on equipping the 300WSM with either a BDC reticle, or an MOA/MIL reticle and practice using it. Something along the lines of a Leupold VX6 or scope with exposed turrets would also help. The magnification won't be the issue with either scope you listed, it's the aiming points required to hit at 400-600, both elevation and at those distances you may have to compensate for wind. I'd also become very familiar with a ballistic APP like Strelok.

I go so far as to tape a dope chart on my stock right below the action, so I can roll the rifle and see my dope.

Guys will say that with a range finder etc. you can make shots with a less flat shooting rifle, but calculations take time, time that you might not have. Read some blogs done by professional hunting guides and you see that a re-occurring complaint is their clients fiddling with chit when they should have shot. The 300WSM will give you a more forgiving MPBR and also a longer distance where you can expect expansion of your bullet.

I don't worry about over-thinking it. I'd rather practice my azz off for the worse case scenario and end up with a "chip-shot" then the vice-versa. Beside, practice is fun.

The next thing I'd work on is practicing from field positions, get off the bench, even if you have to do it with a .22LR with scaled TGTs at a 100 yd range. Dryfire also helps. I've gone so far as to set up hunting lanes with steel swingers so I can practice for the worst case shot. I practice the normal; sitting, kneeling, prone and standing, then I do it from a bipod, tripod and off my back pack. This will give you an idea of your effective range using which position. Bottom line is the closer you are to the ground, the more stable you can be.

I like to learn how accurate I am based on the conditions and by position.

I'm also working on this in prep for a MT mulie hunt this fall. I've been doing more work with a precision tripod and it probably adds about 100 yds to my effective range when off a bag, and a couple hundred when clamped in. It's another tool that I've got to learn and practice with. I make pretty good use of .22LR and .223 "trainers" that are set up like my hunting rifles. Makes practice cheaper and lets me practice longer strings without developing a flinch.

Last year I prepped for an antelope hunt in WY, I got pretty good out to 600 prone supported, and pretty solid at 400 with a cheap tripod sitting with my hunting rifle. Then I ended up shooting one at just under 250. A "chip shot" when compared for what I practiced for.

Last weekend with a .22LR at 150:



Dry firing off a bag:



Backpack at 307:



Glassing I've use both binos 10x42 and a scope 15-40. Both for long periods need a tripod (so since your carrying it, you might as well learn how to shoot off it). We normally hunt as a team 2 on 1 guided, so we split up carrying the equipment.

I'd like to know which GMU you're hunting. GMU 33 is not near the Wyoming border at all: https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5399066.html

I won't try to give you any advice on which rifle, what scope, or how best to practice. I've never shot past 400 yards, so it'd all just be things I've gathered from reading. What I would do, is find out what exactly where you'll be, and get on Google Earth to look at the terrain. I'd also solicit as much advice as possible from the people who are taking you out. What they use, how they take those shots, etc.

I'm very surprised about people suggesting 600 yard shots on black bears, regardless if that's how they do it or not. Hard to judge a good bear at that distance. Perhaps they don't know what they are doing, no offense? Kind of takes the "hunt" out of huntign? I would set up for a 300 yard shot, and pass on anything over that, again regardless if the "crowd" is shooting further. Use your own common sense, and what feels right for you, not them.

Chuck R. said:

Even here in KS, 500-600 is a long ways. I've made shots to 500+ on game, but I prefer not to do it. Conditions, to include my rest, have to be pretty much perfect as IMHO there's too many things that can go wrong. ToF, plus reaction time gives an animal a chance to move. Add that to normal probable errors (not on a bench I'm a 1+ MOA shooter, with a sub-MOA rifle) and wind and it's not something I'm willing to chance.

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Well said.

Something doesn't sound right here. If you can't get closer to a bear than 5-600 yards, I just don't know. I've been a western hunter all my life and I try to stay within 300 yards. I've never hunted bears, but I've sure walked up on a few a lot closer than 600 yards. Heck, I'm not even looking that far away. I wish you the best and if it were me I'd just go with what you got as far as the rifle/scope combo you got. 4-12 otta be enough. When you shoot that far out if the critter is not DRT you'll have a heck of a time finding the impact point and getting a blood trail. Back in my working days I found some dandy bulls dead, that sports had shot at long distance. Hit them but then couldn't find the spot where they were hit and therefore couldn't find a blood trail if there was one, or if they even bothered. Full disclosure, I'm not a fan of taking shot at those distances.

Ugly Sauce said:

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I'm very surprised about people suggesting 600 yard shots on black bears, regardless if that's how they do it or not. Hard to judge a good bear at that distance. Perhaps they don't know what they are doing, no offense? Kind of takes the "hunt" out of huntign? I would set up for a 300 yard shot, and pass on anything over that, again regardless if the "crowd" is shooting further. Use your own common sense, and what feels right for you, not them.

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So am I, the one black bear hunt I went on, was spot and stalk in AK and the shot was still a little over 35yds. The guy we hunted with recommended something we could shoot accurately to 200.

If I spotted a bear at 600 yards I would probably try to cut that in half. I regularly shoot out to 500 yards, but that is paper punching. Animals tend to move, especially bears when they are feeding.

I don't have much hunting experience, but the 500-600 yard distance that other are questions is something I was skeptical about too. Perhaps they "spot and stalk" off of a ridge, but without the stalking part? The terrain perhaps favors that. Which is why you might want to learn more about the area.

Captcurt said:

If I spotted a bear at 600 yards I would probably try to cut that in half. I regularly shoot out to 500 yards, but that is paper punching. Animals tend to move, especially bears when they are feeding.

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Certainly seems it would be much more fun, and more "hunt", to plan a stalk that would bring you closer to the bear. Figure out the wind and terrain. Sounds better than just getting out of the truck and whanging away at long distance. I suspect that the folks who invited you are road hunters. ? But perhaps they climb the side of a mountain and glass. ? I'd bet a long range rifle, it's the former.

I've hunted in Montana and the only bear hunt I was involved in was a Blackie was taken at about 50 yards by a friend I was hunting with. If the guide is telling you that you have an extreme distance to shoot, get another guide that will get you close enough to swat the bear on the ass. The best thing about hunting bear is the stalk, you cannot beat it and that really defines hunting for me! Now, if you're handicapped and can't stalk then perhaps a longer shot is where you want to be. Either rifle you have, along with the scope they're wearing now, is excellent for this type of hunt. Go with what you have and have a great time!

I've driven through area 33, never hunted there. It is pretty wide open and I could see where longish shots would be the norm. If you shoot the 300 WSM as well as the 308 then take it. If you shoot the 308 considerably better take it. At 300-400 yards either is capable. The 300 will hit a little harder at longer ranges.

The question is, can you hit a bear at 500-600 yards. Anyone who can hit a game animal at 50 yards can do it at 300. It just isn't that much harder with today's gear. And it doesn't take a whole lot more skill to go to 400. Many guides who guide in some of those open areas tell clients to come with a rifle and the skills for 400 yards. They will try to get you closer, but will tell you up front that often 400 yards is as good as they can do because of the terrain. There are other places in Colorado where a 100 yard shot is a long one. It's a big place with varied terrain.

Once you get to 500+ it takes a lot of skill, or luck. At those ranges it doesn't take much wind to make things difficult. But you've got time to get in some practice. I've shot some at targets out to 600 yards. Most of those shots have impacted close enough to hit the vitals of an elk size animal. But a fair number would have been wounding shots or misses on a smaller deer size target. Bear are going to be somewhere in between. Based on my shooting skills and confidence factor 300 is as far as I'd shoot at a deer or bear. If conditions were perfect I might try an elk at 400.

But at the same time I won't be critical of those who can and do shoot farther. I just know my personal limits. And that is what you need to determine.

I personally would decline the invitation. Men who can reliably make 600 shots on big game are far out of my class, and the amount of training and expense it would take for me to get to that level is simply too much. Conversely, there are plenty of men who take 600 yard shots but have absolutely no business trying it - and I have no desire at all to be present in their company.

courtgreene said:

I believe they are trying to convince me to practice and not assume "I'm good at 100, that's probably enough." In other words, over prepare so that I'm not under prepared. That's just my gut instinct. They did say they got one that far last year, though, but I believe this to mostly be the distance they see them, as opposed to the distance they typically shoot them.

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That sounds more reasonable. Like chickasaw_hunter, I've been a "western hunter" my whole life, and I've only shot one head of big game (a good-sized mule deer buck) that was over 500 yards away.
The terrain here in Idaho can and does vary from heavy timber and brush where even 50-yard shots are unlikely, to steep, scrub maple and juniper covered mountains and canyons where 100 to 200-yard shots are common, to wide-open, small sagebrush and grass covered planes where 500-yard + shots are occationally all that's available, but that's rare. As I said, I've shot a grand total of one head of big game that was over 500 yards away.
I sight my big game rifles in to hit dead-on at 250 yards, and the largest scopes I've ever used are 3-9 variables. I seriously doubt that the "folks" who invited you meant that 5-600 yard shots are common. Like you say, they probably just advised you to be "prepared" for them rather than assuming that because you can put 3 bullets in an inch at 100 from a shooting bench, you're good to go.
That said, if it was me, I'd take the 300wsm with its 3-9 scope because I like 30 caliber magnums (obviously). However, I killed a lot of mule deer and elk with my 308 Winchester wearing a 2-7 Weaver in my younger years. That one 560-yard mule deer buck I killed, I killed with a 30-06 wearing a 2-8 Leopold.

I walked within 30 yards of a black bear while hunting elk in Montana. My buddy did the same with another bear. You have to make sure that it's not a sow with a cub(s) before harvesting.

Hitting an animal at 600 yards is one thing, placing the shot into a 12" vital zone is another. Best way to be ready for a 600 yard shot is to not take it, and resist the peer pressure to do so.

FWIW, I gotta go with Ugly Sauce. I live in Colorado, and have a passing knowledge of the GMU referenced. Having said that, I can't think of a lot of 600 yard bear habitat. As is often said, a 600 yard scope ain't gonna make you a 600 yard hunter.

-jb, bears ... I hear they are in the forest?

If you see one that far, go to sleep.

Last year elk hunting at dusk, saw a big cinnamon blackie on a ridge about a half mile away. That night as I slept in my tent, the bear came within 50 yards of me. Found tracks in my previous day tracks when I went out at dawn.

Following an angry, wounded bear with a 600 yard head start is a nightmare. No thanks. 300 yards sounds more realistic. And yeah, I’m in a Rocky Mountain state.

600 yards makes me think they are not getting out of the pickup truck. I can understand that, I don't like getting too far from the beer cooIer either. But I can't imagine not being able to get much closer than that.

A lot of the 600 yard shots tend to be about half that. Most are guesstimations. Anyone who even attempts a shot over 300 yards needs confirmation from a good rangefinder.

Area 33 puts around Rifle, Glenwood Springs. There is indeed some some wide open country there as H&Hhunter pointed out. I'm in the camp with the others saying to get closer if possible.
If and when you go, you're going to LOVE that country. Also, try to acclimate yourself to that altitude. Air gets thin up there when not used to it.