red-dot pistols

Some of the Smith and Wessons that are optic ready come with suppressor sights which may or may not allow for cowitness.

Glock MOS guns don’t remove the rear sight, same with XD and M&P CORE. Don’t think CZ or FN do either, Oh also the Shadow Systems, those are really nice for mounting an optic. Some of the models come with suppressor height sights.

It’s mostly Sig that drops the rear sight for some reason, and I agree it’s silly.

You could also just go with another 365. I have an XL and the little rear sight on the back of the Holosun 507k barely catches the front sight and works fine as a backup, if a bit awkward.

JR24 said:

You could also just go with another 365.

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Have to agree with this.
My 365X had a factory-installed Romeo Zero sight, and retained the irons.
Was about a c-note more than a 'base' 365X, which is not a bad deal as the Romeo Zero runs about $150-175 by itself.
The X is a 365 slide on a 365XL frame/grip.

You can get a rear sight that mounts directly to a DPPro.

Most stock guns, with plate systems, won't have high enough sites to co-witness.

Have several pistols with dots, why do you want co witness?
A lower 1/3 puts the irons out of your view.

FN makes a few. My HD gun is an FNX tactical and the sights co-witness. I occasionally run a red dot on it but for HD it gets a light with a laser.

You can get a SCCY with a Crimson Trace red dot, installed from the factory that has usuable iron sights. About $400.00 with the dot installed.



I got this one used (<300), mostly to see how I'd like the dot. It's not a bad little gun. I know the iron sights are there, but I don't use them. The gun itself has been 100%. Whoever had it before me had the dot sighted in for me. I haven't had to touch it. The irons are just a notch in the rear and the usual front sight, but they should work if you want to use them. I just used the dot.

For your consideration

Since you're already used to a p365, why not a p365xl?

johnnylaw53 said:

I just feel if it a defense weapon you want a back up system in case the battery goes out at the worst time, I have a red dot on my AR and it set up to co-witness have never had to co-witness but nice to know i can

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I think it would be more accurate to use the term "backup iron sights" rather than "co-witness" in this case. It's a good idea (IMO) to have backups that are visible through the sight window. But "co-witnessing" or slaving the dot to the top of the irons=not a good idea IMO.

In my case for those (none) interested, if I zero the irons and zero the dot, they don't line up with each other. Maybe my eyes are weird or my optic is weird or my cut is weird, but that's how it is. Watch the videos above for other reasons.

johnnylaw53 said:

I just feel if it a defense weapon you want a back up system in case the battery goes out at the worst time, I have a red dot on my AR and it set up to co-witness have never had to co-witness but nice to know i can

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Yep, BACK UP system, so why do people want a back up sight system blocking part of the target?

A lower 1/3 still runs irons but they are out of your viewing window while a running dot.

2 of 3 of my red dot mounted pistols (G17 and FNX Tactical) have suppressor height iron sights installed. The FNX came with them and I added some to my G17 so I can cowitness with them.

The other red dot sight capable pistol XDM Elite 3.8” 10MM does not allow cowitness with the factory sights. The Hex red dot sits too high to make them useable so if I decide to put the red dot back on, I may swap the irons out as well.

I prefer to have the irons available if the red dot malfunctions. Same for my AR’s that have red dots. I have flip up irons as back ups for them.

Stefan A said:

p365, why not a p365xl?

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SIG does all three version with its Romeo Zero, the XL is probably more seen with the RDS "in the wild."
So, it's down to availability with SIG (and they are pushing the 380s pretty hard right now).
All kinds of options out there.

johnnylaw53 said:

I am thinking of getting a pistol with a red-dot for home defense and sometimes carry. I'm wanting one that with a red-dot mounted you can still co-witness with iron sight. So far all I found were the Ruger max 9 and the Hell Cat. I want a pistol a little bit bigger then these two as i have an Sig p365 for my EDC. Was thinking of a compact p320 but as far as I can tell when you mount a red.dot you lose your rear sight. Anyone knows any pistols that come already milled for a red dot that you don't lose the rear sight when you mount one other then the two I named? Thank you,

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Not with a Sig P320 RXP compact, you don't loose the rear sight. They put suppressor height sights on them from the factory. I think they make 2 versions, get the one with the tritium irons.

Just point shoot. And practice such.

Even with an AR. If my ACOG washes out, it's nearly always somewhere close range. (Entering building)

Sights are a luxury in most pistol defense situations.

I'd go Glock and get a set of sights that barely reach up into the bottom of the window. But I'm not getting on this bandwagon until theres non-reciprocating sights. Like the Luargo Arms Alien, or Open class pistols.

I dont feel more competent with compact ccw red dot pistols, any more than iron sights.

sevt_chevelle said:

Yep, BACK UP system, so why do people want a back up sight system blocking part of the target?

A lower 1/3 still runs irons but they are out of your viewing window while a running dot.

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Yeah, I like lower 1/3 to 1/4 in case I need them. With my eyes, in bright sunlight it’s fairly common that simple 3 or 6 MOA dots will just vanish even on full brightness, especially red.

So I like the big circle and dot on the Holosun, in green, cranked to near max so I can actually see it.

Took me a while to find the “right” solution but once I did I really appreciate the ease and speed of a dot on longer shots. Sure I probably won’t need it if I gotta use my gun close and fast, but that’s the same with any sights, I like that I can drill small targets at 15 yards so much more quickly with the dot.

I believe any of the Sig optics have the rear sight built into the optic. I have a Romeo ZeroElute and a Romeo 1 Pro that both do.

I'm with kidneyboy -- I think a laser makes a lot of sense on a home defense pistol. In my experience, it's much faster and easier to pick up than a red dot, and you can skip all those worries about the sight picture and co-witnessing, etc. It also enables firing from various positions in case you can't get your pistol to eye level for some reason, and it lets you keep total focus on your target rather than on your sights. I think that could be a big plus in defensive situations.

With the rise of companies making optic pistols, just as many are making versions where you can retain the iron sights if you wish. Walther PDP is a nice option. Uses a plate system similar to Glock MOS without losing the rear sight like the PPQ Q4. PSA Dagger is another good option, much cheaper than other makers right now. And you can choose if you want your backup iron sights in their normal place or in front of the red dot.

https://waltherarms.com/pdp/
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...e-threaded-barrel-2-tone-flat-dark-earth.html

Different red dot sights have different profiles. By that I mean I have suppressor sights on my G17 and a Swampfox red dot allows me to be able to use the irons but a Burris Fastfire sits too high and doesn’t really allow a clear rear to front site picture.

Also, the Springfield XDM Elite 3.8” 10MM I have comes with great irons sights but if you put on the Hex Red dot sight it comes with, you can’t use the irons as the red dot sits too high for co-witness.

Past the mid point of my seventh decade a Red-Dot sight probably not going to happen. I'm not in the marketplace for Red-Dot sight and or contemplating modifying a handgun are acquiring a new handgun to mount one.

toivo said:

a laser makes a lot of sense

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For my 2¢ you are correct. However, from my practice with one, there are two issues to deal with. One is needing a switch, either on/off or momentary contact--both of which will need an explicit action (versus shake-awake RDS).
The other issue is that the laser really illustrates ever wobble, bobble, and twitch in your grip. That latter can be very distracting, as it's reflex to "chase" the dot.
The laser also winds up very dependent on lighting, distance, and reflectivity of the target.

The ways to install a laser give me pause, too. Pretty much, only the CrimsonTrace and "guiderod" laser do not change the profile or require extraordinary changes to holsters. I've used both, none are presently installed.

PSA Dagger already milled for optic and night sights for under $400 makes a whole lotta sense and it’s fantastic to shoot. Some change the trigger but I have no issues with