An unsafe gun friend

Bazoo said:

I agree with all of the comments about him endangering myself and family and that there is no excuse for it.

He is the type of friend that has helped me move. He came and mowed my grass when my mom was dying so I didn’t have to. He come and fed my outside dogs and scooped their pen when I was in the hospital. We go to his house for supper occasionally.

I’m also friends in the same way with his son. Who is my age. And to a lesser extend one of his daughters. So it’s a pickle for me.

I guess the main reason I’m reluctant to address it is I can count my friends on one hand. He is the one that if I need help, is most likely to help no matter what it is.

Click to expand...

Go take a safety class together! don’t sugar coat it, just tell him that you Love Him and it would mean alot if we did this together

You’ve described a number of close calls and the odds are building against you. How will you deal with it when someone is injured or killed? Truth is that there are some people who are not disciplined enough to carry firearms and although they may be great as a buddy it’s time to find other interests that you can enjoy together.

I wonder also, after accidentally shooting holes in homes and cars, why your buddy is not questioning his own competence.

Not dry firing would be a good start.

DustyGmt said:

Like "yeah man I have this strange rule about having guests who habitually ND inside of homes, you know, where families live".

Click to expand...

Doesn't even have to be habitual. One strike and you're out.

Really, given the known past history I wouldn't let him touch a gun in my home at all.

Jesus man I got lots of really good friends from the old days that i only see once a year or less. One i thought was going to kill me or a family member or himself just isn’t going to make the list of people I make time for.

Everyone has their own way of approaching a situation, and I find as a 23 year vet living with alpha males, a direct approach is the riskiest. You mention he is a Christian and you guys hang out a lot. I would be saying grace and asking our father to help your friend before someone is hurt. It's direct but not, and friends know your senserity if your close at all. Just an idea but a lot less aggressive.

If he could stomach reading this thread about himself,... might wake him up.

Bazoo said:

He is the type of friend that has helped me move. He came and mowed my grass when my mom was dying so I didn’t have to. He come and fed my outside dogs and scooped their pen when I was in the hospital. We go to his house for supper occasionally.

I’m also friends in the same way with his son. Who is my age. And to a lesser extend one of his daughters. So it’s a pickle for me.

I guess the main reason I’m reluctant to address it is I can count my friends on one hand. He is the one that if I need help, is most likely to help no matter what it is.

Click to expand...

This is exactly what you need to communicate to him. You start with how much you value your friendship with him and his family, and then proceed to how his behavior with firearms is dangerous and needs to change.

Does his son feel the same way you do? What about his daughter? Maybe talking to him with his son/daughter would be easier or have more of an impact going at it alone.
If he is older then you, is it possible he gets all huffy and puffy because he views at in the "whats this youngling talking to me about, I'm older and wiser" kind of way?

I'd probably be a bit harsh with him.

I have a friend who's pretty green, and he kept sweeping me the first time we went shooting.

I brought it all to a full stop and indelicately let him know that he needed to get his head together (edited for television) and focus, or we were done.

he did not do it again.

carelessness can get you killed!

Bazoo said:

I have discussed some of the issues with his son. The muzzling and safety off issues. The son said he wasn’t really sure how to address it cause he knows dad gets huffy.

Click to expand...

Then maybe the two of talking to him together might work, or at least if he gets all huffy it won't just be you being irrational but you, someone who cares for him as a friend, and his son talking to him men to man. You might decide to no longer shoot with him depending on how the conversation goes, but you might still be able to keep the friendship.

Bazoo said:

The son doesn’t know about the NDs. He begged me not to mention it.

Click to expand...

This sort of sounds like his sons knows its happened before and made some kind of threat about it happening in the future . . . but I could be way off.

Bazoo

This so-called "friend" is an ongoing accident waiting to happen. I don't know if he's suffering from ADHD but something going on in his brain is causing a major disconnect when it comes to safe gun handling.

Time to lay down the law: either he cleans up his abysmal gun handling practices or else you're done going shooting with him.

Bottom line is you and his son/family are enablers. I'll bet this guy has other issues thats causing him to be so careless. I've had same type people. They are gone. Not worth mine or my families life. Hate to say it but grow a set and set this guy straight. Or accept what could be a fatal event. No excuses.

There are things you've said that worry me that at times, you're no more safe than he is:

Bazoo said:

.

But he does other things. He often leaves the safety off on his gun when shooting. It’s just not a habit like it is for me to put the safety on. Especially when shooting clays. Like for example, if he lets me shoot his gun , he’ll hand it to me with the safety off. When I return it with the safety on, he will always pull the trigger and no bangy because he didn’t assume the safety to be on and didn’t check. Does the same when we are shooting 22 rifles.

Click to expand...

If you were to hand a fellow shooter a loaded shotgun on any of our clays ranges, safety on or not, you'd be permanently banned. You want to let someone shoot your gun, or vice-versa, that's okay, but you hand it to them unloaded and action open. So far as I am concerned that's the only way to hand any kind of firearm to someone else under any circumstance, and I teach basic handgun, rifle and shotgun classes.

So in this instance he showed me his loaded carry gun, I unloaded it, checked it out, loaded it back and handed it back in the same condition it was handed to me in. He pointed it and bang. No one was hurt. He did have it pointed in a safe direction. He said he thought I unloaded it and was just going to dry fire. So trying to duck the blame and put it on me.

Click to expand...

Goes back to what I just mentioned; you NEVER hand a loaded firearm to anyone, under any circumstances. He should unload the carry gun before he hands it to you to look at, and you hand it back to him the same way, and with the action open. That is basic firearm safety.

I’ve seen him have his finger on the trigger when readjusting the grip on a cocked single action. Muzzle was pointed upwards. On the range. I mentioned it and he got huffy. I’ve seen him do the same thing with his off hand over the cylinder gap.... that would have sucked for him.

Click to expand...

The burned hand teaches best about fire.

I’ve tried to mention things here and there and he always gets defensive. He was in the air force. He says I was safe enough in the AF and now I’m not safe I guess. He goes to an indoor range and he must be safe enough for them? Maybe they ain’t got high standards.

Click to expand...

I got intimately acquainted with the USAF Combat Arms section of the base I was stationed at during Desert Storm, and let me tell you, the standards couldn't have been any higher or stricter. What did your friend do in the AF? Generally, base security and the police forces are the only guys who routinely use firearms, unless they're Spec Ops guys. I don't see him being any of those, if he was so cavalier about gun safety in the military. Even non-combatants have to take a basic rifle and handgun course and qualify in the AF; I was a Flight Nurse, technically a noncombatant, but our instructors were very strict about safety and would crawl all over anyone who muzzle flashed someone after being told not to.

How best to approach this?

Thanks for reading. Prayer and advice welcomed here.

Click to expand...

As for the rest of what you posted about him, friend or not, I'd never put myself into a situation where I was with him when he is armed. I would not allow him in my house, or on my property when he was armed, and if he is too obtuse or his pride is wounded, too bad. Better his pride than you or a loved one.

Mark_Mark said:

Go take a safety class together!

Click to expand...

Amen

Bazoo said:

How best to approach this?

Click to expand...

RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

Sorry but he's done and needs an intervention of the permanent kind such as felony endangerment charge. Better to lose a living friend than a lifetime of regret (or worse, no lifetime at all).

I just have a relative over and he wanted to show me his carry gun. Took it out of his pocket and immediately covered me. I moved very fast and told him what he did but he said that oh, he was safe.

I had him put his gun away without me looking at it. I can live without him hurting someone in my house.

Bazoo said:

Especially when shooting clays.

Click to expand...

Two of my Trap guns don't even have safeties, and the ones that do the safeties stay off the whole Trap season, unless I am going to hunt with them.

Mark_Mark said:

Also… I was peppered at the trap range and it hurt like HELL! that was bird shot. I consider myself LUCKY!

the young guy had his finger on the trigger of a pump gun. and you know the rest of the story.

Click to expand...

Ain't just young guys. We have a league member that reloads his pump immediately after he shoots, then stands like a Southern Sherriff with the butt on his hip with his finger in the trigger guard.

Armored farmer said:

I sympathize with you @Bazoo , but he sounds dangerous.

The trap range thing about the safety not being engaged....maybe i could overlook that one. Many trapguns do not have safeties. My model 12 trapgun has its safety removed.

Click to expand...

And your 4E's don't have them either.

I won't shoot with one Brother-in Law because he is dangerous. He stood talking to me pointing his 9mm at my gut, safety off, finger in the trigger guard. I gently pushed the muzzle away from me and reminded him about the 4 rules. He did it again about 15 minutes later, I did the same, not as gently, and told him if there were a third time, he'd be looking down the bore of a .45 about 3 inches from his nose. I didn't offer him that opportunity, I packed up and left. He had the gall to ask me to go shooting with him after a while, and I refused. I worked with his wife, (my wife's sister) and she asked me why. So I told her. She agreed with me, but was hoping I'd do so just to get him off the couch, and I asked her "Which one do you want to be the widow, your sister or you?" she never brought up the subject again. I can't bring up the subject of guns or hunting at family gatherings because of him, unless he's out of earshot.

bannockburn said:

Bazoo

This so-called "friend" is an ongoing accident waiting to happen. I don't know if he's suffering from ADHD but something going on in his brain is causing a major disconnect when it comes to safe gun handling.

Time to lay down the law: either he cleans up his abysmal gun handling practices or else you're done going shooting with him.

Click to expand...

ADHD literally has nothing to do with it and should be dealt with as required.... I've had it my entire life ad was the weapons department cpo on a trident... my son has adhd and is a model of gun safety at the range, the ro uses him as an example to nubs.

Air force guy probably never was part of a weapons detail and definitely did not stand nwsg.

entropy said:

that reloads his pump immediately after he shoots, then stands like a Southern Sherriff with the butt on his hip with his finger in the trigger guard.

Click to expand...

No Southern Sherriff I know would do that, and I know a few.

I'm going to say this once and I'm going to shut up but based on past posting history I'm beginning to smell a troll.

Y'all have fun

Scouts Out.

^^^^