30 Rem. AR

mcb said:

Nearly all the upper is proprietory.

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This sure doesn’t help.

We see stuff like this which just suffer - WSSM AR-15’s from Oly/DTI had the same hurdle. A great many AR shooters even avoid cartridges which can’t or don’t use .378” nominal bolt faces and Stanag mags - I’ve had dozens of folks call for custom rifles to be built over the years, but then turn away from things like SPC and Grendel because they don’t use standard mags and bolts… proprietary extensions, bolts, carriers, and uppers are even a step beyond. Aero’s “enhanced” uppers are one example I can think of where proprietary uppers have done well, but they’ve done a great job with marketing their builders’ kits, and selling uppers AND handguards - a bit different than the 30AR game.

someguy2800 said:

That one is pretty easily explained because 300 whisper was a trademarked cartridge so you can't make a gun and print 300 whisper on the side without paying a royalty or licence. Blackout on the other hand is saami standardized and is not trademarked so its free for the world to use. Anyone who buys a 300 blackout reamer can make guns and barrels or ammo. Step number one in making a commercial success is it can't be a trademarked name.

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Same game Wild Bill played with all of us with the Grendel for years - forcing creation of the “264 LBC” moniker which was more openly shared. Same crap going on now with .375 Cheytac. Sucks, across the board.

Keyfer 55 said:

Why did the 30 Rem AR never take off ??
Has great ballistics and easy to load.

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Could it be that Remy shifted gears some years ago and got excited about the 6.8 SPC? But then again they blew it there too!

Even though it lost favor with the some in the military it's a "hit" with deer and hog hunters.

Personally I love the cartridge. But the military is looking hard at the 6mm ARC! Smiles,

I'm kind of confused why people get so hung up on proprietary parts considering pretty much every non AR based gun in the universe also has proprietary parts. I could see being worried about breaking a bolt lug, but why would I be concerned about buying a replacement upper receiver or handguard more so than any other rifle? Any other non AR rifle on the market has the same risk of the company going under and not being able to get parts so why is that so different for an AR? MDWS will actually sell you a spare bolt if one is so concerned. I have thought about taking them up on that offer since I like mine a lot.

I have no idea why- but I know if you dust off and read some gun magazines from the time frame of that round being released, it was going to be the wave of the future... just like every other new caliber that comes out. Which is why I don't read gun magazines much, and when I do, I don't pay much attention to all the new calibers sent to us like a gift from some deity.

Part of the charm of the cartridge to me is its failed and obsolete status. I thought it was a cool idea, to attempt to put near 308 Win performance in an AR-15, at the expense of capacity, specific for hunters wanting to hunt deer with an AR-15, and though I missed the cartridge when it first came out got lucky and fell into enough parts, ammo, and dies that I should be able to keep my 30 RAR running for quite some time to come.

Many of the cartridges created for the AR-15 plateform in the wake of the 94 AWB (2004 sunset) were made to prove that the AR-15 could be a legitimate hunting rifle after too many anti-gunners said you don't need an AR-15 to hunt deer. So the industry responded with a variety of new cartridges for the AR-15 platform to let it do more than it could before in its default 223/556 chambering. 450 Bushmaster and 30 RAR were some of those early cartridges designed to make the AR-15 a hunting rifle. 450 BM made it, 30 RAR did not. There are many more cartridges designed specifically for the AR-15 in both categories.

Name and lack of push. Look at the 300 fireball, 300-221, 300 whisper failures and 300 blk success. Despite them all being the exact same thing for all practical purposes.

It doesn’t help if everything has to be special though.

It’s probably not because Remington came out with it or we wouldn’t have the .223 Remington, for example.

I figured it was so close to the 7mm BR it was probably going to fail. It did thrive either despite being a really great round for paper and medium game at typical distances with low recoil.

jmorris said:

It’s probably not because Remington came out with it or we wouldn’t have the .223 Remington, for example.

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Without implying Remington has done well in marketing their new cartridges, and without intending to say anything positive about their recent or current business operations, the popular whipping Remington takes online is much more internet hype than reality.

Rem has commercialized some of the highest selling cartridges in US history, and dozens of others which do not share the same “missed marks” as the 30 RAR or the 244 Rem. The 7mm Rem Mag, 25-06, 7-08, 22-250, 257 Roberts, 416 Rem mag, 280Rem, 260rem, 6BR… Remington birthed a great number of highly successful, mainstream, mainstay cartridges in use today. The 6.8 SPC gets flak these days as a “failure,” even though it remains one of the most popular cartridges and parent cartridge for the MSR market - a far cry from any objective definition of “failure.” Gotta remember also - the 300 Blackout was commercialized by AAC WHILE AAC WAS OWNED BY REMINGTON! The RUM’s have enjoyed as much popularity among western and long range hunters which can be enjoyed by any cartridge, and the RSAUM’s demonstrably have done better in their niche market than their predecessors, the WSM’s - both of which enjoy popularity within their market. The 17 Rem and 221 Fireball have sustained as popular colony varminting cartridges. The 222 rem is famed still for its “inherent accuracy” and earned a retained cult like following. And of course, the 223 Rem stands tall as the second most sold centerfire rifle cartridge in the world, and most sold in the US…

Sure, we can point to a few flops like the 30 RAR and 244, but we can equally point to failed cartridges from a great number of companies - even companies with exceptionally high hit rates for cartridge success in market. Consider Ruger - they have a remarkably high batting average with their cartridge launches, but the 300 RCM was at best, a foul tip, if not a legitimate strike out… 32 Win Special, 307 Win - failures to launch, and hell, I’ll even cast shade here on the WSSM’s, as they simply never got the footing they likely enjoyed, and truly languished, despite the relatively higher success of the WSM’s.

But for the 30RAR, the market just isn’t there. Hunters are a dying breed, we’ve all realized 30cals which aren’t easily held sub-Sonic need high BC’s and large case capacities to be interesting for those still hunting, the Mil-Spec Monkey Mafia doesn’t like proprietary AR-15 components, and ultralight and G2 LFAR/AR-10 components have decreased the penalty of building large frames instead of 15’s… It’s certainly a neat little rifle and cartridge.

I’d be interested to look at a 30 RAR in a true, lightweight, mini length bolt action with a 12-13” barrel, suppressed - might make a dandy little hog rifle.

A lot of folks, including myself, are bitter about what happened to Remington in the last 20 years of their existence.

The 30 RAR falls into that timeframe. That cartridge is a microcosm of the overall problems Remington had during that time.

I try to be judicious with this word but Remington was a fudd company. They invested heavily in and then died on that hill. Surprisingly, they were successfully sued for apparently being the opposite of a fudd company so that is a tidbit of brutal irony.

Yes, they owned DPMS and Bushmaster and then used them as a developer for the AR line that bears the Remington name. Complete with camo and 5 rnd magazines. At least they were diversified at that time. Then they eventually buckled to politics

They took an AR and removed what many people like about ARs (modularity) to make a hunting rifle developed around a specific hunting only cartridge. Back then, the floodgates of AR ownership were opening wide. Regular folks were “building” ARs and Remingtons new take on the hunting AR just wasn’t going to work.

It should also be noted that Remington’s historical successes with cartridges like the 22-250, 25-06, 280, and 7mm-08 were not due to actions predominantly done by Remington. All those cartridges were well established wildcats by the time Remington made them “official”. Still though, they do deserve credit for taking that step.

earlthegoat2 said:

A lot of folks, including myself, are bitter about what happened to Remington in the last 20 years of their existence.

The 30 RAR falls into that timeframe. That cartridge is a microcosm of the overall problems Remington had during that time.

I try to be judicious with this word but Remington was a fudd company. They invested heavily in and then died on that hill. Surprisingly, they were successfully sued for apparently being the opposite of a fudd company so that is a tidbit of brutal irony.

Yes, they owned DPMS and Bushmaster and then used them as a developer for the AR line that bears the Remington name. Complete with camo and 5 rnd magazines. At least they were diversified at that time. Then they eventually buckled to politics

They took an AR and removed what many people like about ARs (modularity) to make a hunting rifle developed around a specific hunting only cartridge. Back then, the floodgates of AR ownership were opening wide. Regular folks were “building” ARs and Remingtons new take on the hunting AR just wasn’t going to work.

It should also be noted that Remington’s historical successes with cartridges like the 22-250, 25-06, 280, and 7mm-08 were not due to actions predominantly done by Remington. All those cartridges were well established wildcats by the time Remington made them “official”. Still though, they do deserve credit for taking that step.

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Slight nit picks:

Remington was run by fudds but most of the marketing and engineers were far from fudds. Living here in Huntsville and being an engineer by profession, I have worked with, shot (informally and competitively) and even hunted with a fair number of former Remington R&D engineers (and a few other former employees) and they were anything but Fudds in nearly all cases. The ones I know best have military or DOD backgrounds. They did not like the Fudd decisions anymore than most of the rest of us.

Remington did not loose the Sandy-hook lawsuit. They fought that lawsuit to the bitter end. The second bankruptcy ended Remington side of the fight and the lawyers for the insurance company and Remington estate settled the case out of court. It would have been better for that to have gone to a Judgement and in that sense Remington hurt the 2A community more than any other sin you might heap on the former company.

Remington made a lot of bad decision but also look at how many of SAAMI's catalog of cartridges that were successful have Remington's name (or one of its brand's names) in it. Win some, loose some on that front. It would be interesting to see the win/loss ration of new cartridge introduction for Winchester, Federal and similar compared to Remington's.

FL-NC said:

I have no idea why- but I know if you dust off and read some gun magazines from the time frame of that round being released, it was going to be the wave of the future... just like every other new caliber that comes out. Which is why I don't read gun magazines much, and when I do, I don't pay much attention to all the new calibers sent to us like a gift from some deity.

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Honest marketing for the 30 Rem AR would have been "Its nothing special but its not bad and it fits in this special AR15 we made. So if you're strange and you want to hunt with an AR15 to make your uncles scowl, here ya go."

someguy2800 said:

Honest marketing for the 30 Rem AR would have been "Its nothing special but its not bad and it fits in this special AR15 we made. So if you're strange and you want to hunt with an AR15 to make your uncles scowl, here ya go."

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I resemble that remark.

I resemble that remark too.

Now I have not yet taken a deer with my 30 RAR yet but I have killed a Bobcat and an Armadillo and the result were very satisfactory using 150 gr Corelok, And in a ~9.5 lbs rifle (as pictured above) the recoil is mild and the long barrel makes the report pleasant (and bearable on unprotected ears for a shot or two). I am about 150rds into it and I have not hand any jams other than tuning 450 BM magazine to work and even those I could count on one hand. It is a shame 30 RAR (and Remington) did not make it. It really is a pleasant well behaved rifle and cartridge, warts and all.

Varminterror said:

I’d be interested to look at a 30 RAR in a true, lightweight, mini length bolt action with a 12-13” barrel, suppressed - might make a dandy little hog rifle.

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Decades ago I bought a model Seven to rebarrel from 7-08 to 7BR but just loaded weak 7-08 rounds instead.

I did finally find a combination (thanks MCB) in the lesser 300 blk that works out of my 8.5” + suppressor rifle, it’s “lights out” on pigs. The only ones that didn’t drop in their tracks have already been on the run, so far. So that’s all I have used lately.

I’d love to talk with any marketing person at Weatherby to see how they feel about this old chestnut… bet they were really proud of this campaign at the time, and I’d sure hope they are aptly ashamed of it now…

jmorris said:

I did finally find a combination (thanks MCB) in the lesser 300 blk that works out of my 8.5” + suppressor rifle

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A local SOT is commissioning and selling these monsters - 8.1” 300blks, designed to be double stamped. Absolutely drool worthy!

I really wanted a .30 RAR for Deer/hog and hd/sd. I saved up, then it tanked. Same with the 6.8 Spc! I got 2 .223 uppers. .30 RAR died because: No non proprietary uppers, no affordable ammo, thanks Remington!!! Their marketing is why they are dead to me!

tactikel said:

I really wanted a .30 RAR for Deer/hog and hd/sd. I saved up, then it tanked. Same with the 6.8 Spc! I got 2 .223 uppers. .30 RAR died because: No non proprietary uppers, no affordable ammo, thanks Remington!!! Their marketing is why they are dead to me!

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I feel your pain. There are still components out there for the 6.8 SPC II to be had, though, including decently priced factory ammo. It is a fun medium thumper. I group it together in a class with my 7.62x39, 350 Legend, 450 BM, and 458 SOCOM (also a couple others.)

If you don't have a 6.5 Grendel yet, I think its pretty close to the 6.8 SPC inside 400 yards. After 400 the 6.5 Grendel is even better.

tactikel said:

I really wanted a .30 RAR for Deer/hog and hd/sd. I saved up, then it tanked. Same with the 6.8 Spc!

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This doesn’t make sense to me. Maybe it’s a reference for your personal interest, or financial support for your project, but outside of the overarching pandemic supply issue, a guy can go buy 6.8 SPC parts, ammo, and components, plenty of used complete rifles, some new manufacture rifles readily on the market…

I wouldn’t build another 6.8 SPC for myself in 2022 and beyond (or really any time after about 2016-17), but only because I’d rather have a more consistent component inventory for 6.5 Grendel and 6 ARC, to do the same jobs for which I employ the 6.8 SPC. But I do have two 6.8’s currently - one is my deer and hog rifle for out of state hunts, an 18” rifle, and the other serves more uses; sitting by my bed as well as deer and hog hunting, a suppressed 10.5” SBR-15. Easy to find parts to build, easy to buy, and easy to feed. It ain’t the same as a 30 AR.

I won’t say “worthless”, but a 7.62x39 is superior.

The 300blkt was forced into this false belief that sticking a super heavy, super long, high BC bullet in a tiny case with a small powder charge, it will somehow perform at peak efficiency. But the answer to this is a resounding NO!

Long, heavy, high BC pills need more powder charge & case capacity.

David Hoback said:

I won’t say “worthless”, but a 7.62x39 is superior.

The 300blkt was forced into this false belief that sticking a super heavy, super long, high BC bullet in a tiny case with a small powder charge, it will somehow perform at peak efficiency. But the answer to this is a resounding NO!

Long, heavy, high BC pills need more powder charge & case capacity.

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I use my 300 BLKs with subsonic ammo and a suppressor and as my primary home defense pistols. Great alternative to a 9mm sub gun. Plus its just fun to plink with IMHO, sub or super.

All I can say is that my 30 Rem Ar has been awesome. I LOVE the thing. I picked up enough ammo and components including new brass to last that rifle a lifetime. The 150gr Core Lokt has been acceptablly accurate and I shoot it from time to time, but my reloads using the 125gr Accubond has been even better. That bullet has been nothing but stellar. One deer and one coyote down and neither ever took another step. I was able to source a few extra 4 rounds mags that can be easily modded to hold 5 rounds ans like mentioned I have enough brass and ammo to last me a lifetime. My one and only issue is that if I ever have an issue with the bolt or carrier the rifle essentially becomes a paperweight.