Packing a punch, and concealing it. Ideas?

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DustyGmt

DustyGmt

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I've recently begun to think about the possibility of carrying something with a lil more horsepower than a 9mm, possibly a Shockwave 12Ga type of gun or possibly an AR pistol, like a really small one that can conceal very nicely in a small inconspicuous bag, possibly a 7.5". Are there any other options outside of those two, rhetorical, I know there is but I know there are guys here who have come to this road long before me and have had plenty of time to think on it and I'm sure some of you guys have come up with pretty clever solutions as far as going about concealing them.

It's really disturbing, the idea of somebody heavily armed and having the advantage of surprise and advance knowledge storming into a place, keyed up and with no regard for human life, targeting places of worship, supermarkets, theaters, etc and being forced to react completely taken by surprise with very little time to even process what youre seeing let alone react to it.

I've recently decided to possibly re evaluate my carry choices or supplement them in some cases, some of the time. Not saying we should all live crippled with fear or that everybody ought to walk around strapped to the gills, just considering my regular activities and thinking in such an event, just having a lil pocket 9 makes me a lil more vulnerable than I care to be in certain places. In such an event, you're probably going to be dumbstruck for at least a few seconds while you try to make sense of what's going on unless youre trained to deal with that kind of stress and react quickly, and by then if you aren't already becoming past tense, it would be best to have basically anything besides all your common handgun cartridges, think churches or public gatherings, farmers markets, etc..... I'm thinking 12ga or 5.56 would be suited to this task and the best way to conceal it in public is? Any ideas guys?


Assume I already know that a well placed .380 or .22lr will do the job. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about facing down a murderer with a rifle and body count goals, what is the best thing to have in this scenario that can be concealed and drawn within a few seconds.
 
A Kel-Tec Sub2000 comes to mind. Fits in a 17” laptop bag, deploys in seconds. Still pistol caliber (9mm or .40 S&W), but with a little extra oomph from the 16” barrel. Midwest Industries and MCarbo both have folding red dot mounts for the platform as well.

I’m sure there are AR pistols with a folding or telescoping brace that you can stow in a backpack or similar - not my thing, but I’m sure someone will have a specific suggestion along these lines.

A Shockwave or similar 12ga firearm fits into a tennis racket bag or violin case, but those look a little out of place for routine carry.
 
How about a pistol in 5.7x28mm? Either the FN or the Ruger 57.

Or, you could opt for the "poor man's" version, a surplus Tokarev in 7.62x25mm.

These are accurate, flat-shooting handgun rounds that have impressive penetration capabilities, and the guns chambered for them won't require off-body carry. There have been times prior to this I've wondered if I should brush off the Romanian I bought several years back, then stowed in the safe still covered in Cosmoline. There's a couple hundred rounds of ammo for it back in there, too.

A bagged-up carbine or AR/AK-type pistol is going to take more than "a few seconds" to bring into action in the conditions you describe, especially if you become "dumbstruck" while "still processing" what's going on and become separated from the bag.
 
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That buffalo shooting was just plain scary........ almost too scary, conspiracy worthy.

Body armor, rifles, unarmed population, poorly trained security.

Nothing on the civilian market will defeat the cheapest ar500 plates, you don't stand a chance just accept that.

With that reality accepted focus on training around those points. The only thing that would have changed the game is if a armed person was able to engage and make a head shot or a shot into the groin and the situation was reevaluate shot by shot.

Only being situational aware, armed, and properly train with the pistol you have on your person will make a difference.

You're not Rambo
 
KY DAN said:
That buffalo shooting was just plain scary........ almost too scary, conspiracy worthy.

Body armor, rifles, unarmed population, poorly trained security.
Click to expand...
Can you expound on why you think the security guard, a former police officer, was poorly trained?

Compared to other typical security guards, I would think the opposite would be true.
 
Speedo66 said:
Can you expound on why you think the security guard, a former police officer, was poorly trained?

Compared to other typical security guards, I would think the opposite would be true.
Click to expand...
You make this assumption just because they are cops they receive training beyond the academy level. Not always true.
 
When I was on the job I saw a guy that got hit with a flare gun I would much rather get shot needless to say it really really messed him up for life.
 
Blkhrt13 said:
You make this assumption just because they are cops they receive training beyond the academy level. Not always true.
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Their academy, twenty years of training once or twice a year, and accumulated street smarts? I'd still venture to say not poorly trained compared to the average security guard.

How rigorous are the training standards for a security guard in general? I can't see the security company investing large amounts of money in training. They probably are hiring ex cops so they don't have to train them as much as a guard just off the street.
 
I think youre better off upping your handgun to something more realistic than a pocket gun, and upping your training, than adding a long gun, even a smaller one, into the mix.

From what Ive seen, most dont want to bother with being on the top of their game with the handguns they carry, what makes you think they will be training with the long gun?

In a situation like whats being discussed here, you're not likely to have the time to get to and get the long gun going anyway.
 
Speedo66 said:
Their academy, twenty years of training once or twice a year, and accumulated street smarts? I'd still venture to say not poorly trained compared to the average security guard.

How rigorous are the training standards for a security guard in general? I can't see the security company investing large amounts of money in training. They probably are hiring ex cops so they don't have to train them as much as a guard just off the street.
Click to expand...
Speedo66 said:
Their academy, twenty years of training once or twice a year, and accumulated street smarts? I'd still venture to say not poorly trained compared to the average security guard.

How rigorous are the training standards for a security guard in general? I can't see the security company investing large amounts of money in training. They probably are hiring ex cops so they don't have to train them as much as a guard just off the street.
Click to expand...
im just saying don’t make assumptions not all communities work to a standard.
 
DustyGmt said:
what is the best thing to have in this scenario that can be concealed and drawn within a few seconds.
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Situational awareness and the handgun that you are the most proficient with. Calm, or relative calm, in the face of panic will do you more good than bigger, better, faster or harder firearms.
Leave the AR or shotgun in the vehicle.
 
KY DAN said:
Body armor, rifles, unarmed population, poorly trained security.
Click to expand...

Blkhrt13 said:
You make this assumption just because they are cops they receive training beyond the academy level. Not always true.
Click to expand...
Fox News is reporting that Mr.Salter, may he rest in peace, engaged and hit the attacker multiple times. It would appear his training and bravery were up to the task- not his fault the bad guy was wearing heavy armor.
 
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I would suggest an XDm in 10mm, or a Glockl 20/40. It's reasonably sized and packs a walop. Or maybe a Kriss Vector in 10mm if you really want something big. I don't see an advantage over a Glock 40 though with maybe an optic.

The other guns mentioned in the OP are less than optimal in my opinin for a variety of reasons.
 
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Speedo66 said:
Can you expound on why you think the security guard, a former police officer, was poorly trained?

Compared to other typical security guards, I would think the opposite would be true.
Click to expand...

I certainly will expound, Jeff Cooper talked a great deal in both his books as well as magazine publications about armored targets. He drew a great deal of experience from individuals who were faced with similar situations and survived to tell the tale. In turn he invited the Mozimbique drill......

Thus situation has happened before and people managed to survive because they recognized what they did was not working and quickly tried another approach. This has been a standard taught training technique taught since the 1970s if not earlier...... people never learn and they never believe it could happen to them.

It's very easy for me to say why didn't the security guard try for a head shot instead of mag dumping into center mass but the question for the security guard remains why didn't you at least try? It may have been he lacked the skills to make the shot or he just forgot the world around him.

Either way there are still alot of people dead and even more unanswered questions.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Fox News is reporting that Mr.Salter, may he rest in peace, engaged and hit the attacker multiple times. It would appear his training and bravery were up to the task- not his fault the bad guy was wearing heavy armor.
Click to expand...

I agree the guard meet the challenge and rose above it.

It's the follow through after the first two shots didn't stop the fight I am critiquing.
 
KY DAN said:
It's very easy for me to say why didn't the security guard try for a head shot instead of mag dumping into center mass but the question for the security guard remains why didn't you at least try? It may have been he lacked the skills to make the shot or he just forgot the world around him.
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Never had a target in your gun sights that was shooting back at you, eh?

Sometimes even highly-trained individuals don't fare so well in their first gun fight.
 
Old Dog said:
Never had a target in your gun sights that was shooting back at you, eh?

Sometimes even highly-trained individuals don't fare so well in their first gun fight.
Click to expand...

Like I said it's so easy to become the hypothetical man..... "I would have done this etc"

The use of body armor is real in the world by bad guys and people ha e to open their eyes to it.

I may bit be able to tell what is and what is not body armor but I am smart enough to know a plate carrier means bad news and its time to rethink my approach.

I am a civilian, I have no law enforcement, no military, I have minor training and a whole lot of plinking . I am not Rambo nor a sheep dog, it is not my duty to protect society just myself and my family that's it.

I hope I never find out if I can rise to the occasion.
 
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