9mm vs 380

tws3b2 said:

I have no problem shooting 1911 sized guns. But, I do have problems with carrying 1911 sized guns. I've already given up on anything +p, magnum or 3".
If the 380 is "way" more fun. Sounds the way I want to go.

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Is that due to weight, size or both?
How do you carry; is belt carry an option or restricting yourself to pocket carry?
Is unrequired shirt tucking a limiting factor?

A Glock 19 is smaller and lighter than a 1911 and also produces less recoil than a pocket size 9mm, and many 380's.
Ex: a Glock 19 has less felt recoil than a Kahr PM9 or even a Walther PPK or LCP 380

Regardless, at least 12'' penetration and consistent expansion is desirable, no 22lr is likely to meet both those criteria and very few 380's will.

*update from previous post: I just now learned about the Walther WMP .22 WMR semi-auto pistol and I think it looks interesting enough I put in a bid for one on Gunbroker.

I got there too, just at an earlier age. Been thru most 380s out there and here is what I think.

I never liked shooting 9mm unless out of bigger pistols. 92FS and G17 sized. I still like some bigger 40SW and 45ACP pistols better. We are at a great time, with those in the manufacturing sector realizing some of us don’t want to carry a 9mm, and there are some good 380s that are soft shooters.

My pick is the G42. I carry with a flush 6 round mag and GEE Plate base plates to help lock it in since it’s just a tad smaller than my hands want. A Vickers Tactical +2 adds length for AIWB or shoulder holster carry and easy gripping.

SW Shield EZ 380 is nice. I didn’t like it much, but other speak highly of it. If it wasn’t for the G42, I might put some more time into it.

LCP Max, is just a bigger LCPII and I can’t shoot either pass 7 yards to save my life. And most folks over at Ruger Forum feel about the same way. But other do not and that the best thing about having choices, something for someone.

Sig P365 OR 380. I always thought the 365 would have been best as a 380, but it was a wrong choice for me. I didn’t see lesser recoil than my 9mm version.

Like most others have said, small 380s just aren’t fun to shoot nor are they accurate. I prefer a larger pistol in 380, just so I can shoot it.

I wouldn’t think too much about it or worry too much. Most of the times, I have a SW 43c in my pocket. It’s 22lr and I’m very accurate with it. Looking to get a 317 when my crazy life calms down a bit. If all I can or want to shoot is a 22lr, then it’s no one else’s problem nor business. My edc doesn’t have to pass Delta Force Recon Team 38 torture tests. It doesn’t have to be a the latest or greatest. It just have to what I will carry daily want to shoot regularly.

A 380 fired from one of the tiny pocket guns is not pleasant. I know this and still just bought another pocket 380. This time a Kel-Tec 380. And the ammo was the cheapest I could find locally and it was $30.30 for 50 rounds. I have owned other 380s that weren't bad at all to shoot. They were steel framed guns to. An Astra Constable I was totally stupid for selling and a couple of the single action FIE Titan autos that looked like small sized Beretta 92s with there open slides. Those were very good guns.

But if I ever buy another 380 it will be one of these or the Beretta's they were copied from. I really want one of these too and saw a YT video on them and they looked good.

https://aimsurplus.com/products/tisas-fatih-380b-380-auto-handgun

That being said considering the ammo cost on 380 I think I would stick with 9mm and just buy a bigger sized or heavier gun in 9mm. Or like the other poster suggested get a 32 caliber revolver. Or even a 32acp semi auto. But not the tiny pocket model. Something along the lines of a Walther PP or some of the older CZ guns Aim had for sale a while back for just over $200. I love shooting my Walther PP. Made in 1957. Same year I was made.

Forgot to mention but a good quality 22 is never a mistake. I have two of the Ruger standard model autos, one with 4.5" barrel and the second with a 6" barrel and I have never had a single malfunction with either one. The 6" gun is fairly new but the 4.5" model is a 1976 bicentennial I have had since 2003 and I have shot the hell out of that gun.

I have no need or reason to own or carry a handgun in 380. The S&W Shield 9X19mm- 8+1 is my EDC. On occasion as a backup, I pocket carry a S&W M640 38Spl. Each to their own applies.

I wouldn't want to carry one of the small plastic .380s but my girlfriend carries a Bersa thunder .380 & it shoots easy. I have no problem hitting targets with it. Some of the newer .380 ammo can really be good for carry ammo, it's not like the old ammo was.

My carry gun used to be a Llama locked-breech .380 ACP, very pleasant to shoot. (Virtually a 5/8 scale model of a 1911, right down to the locking link.)

I found an almost identical .380 ACP from Llama which was blowback and it kicked more than the locked-breech version. You could tell where they beefed things up to add more weight to the recoiling parts, but more important than that was the far stiffer recoil spring, which made it harder to rack, and as age and arthritis approached, that got to be more and more of a factor.

Soooo, keep both the extra recoil and the stiffer action in mind for your lady if you're going to go blowback-operated. The extra weight for the recoiling parts was not a significant factor, however.

If I recall correctly, for a very long time, a .380 ACP semiauto was standard sidearm issue for the Army's General staff, so it can't be all bad. Corrections to that statement are invited.

Terry, 230RN

tws3b2 said:

Is the 380 a little more "enjoyable" to shoot for us older guys than the 9mm. Or, should I go on down to 22lr?

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It very much depends on the gun. The old metal frame blowbacks in .380, such as NAA Guardian or Walther PPK kick as hard as a modern ultracompact 9mm. But more modern guns with a locked breech mechanism tend to be significantly softer shooting than 9mm, even big ones. I'd say Browning 1911-380, Glock 42, and S&W "Shield" 380EZ are in the latter category. I heard good things about SIG P365 380 as well, although haven't shot it myself yet.

For the OP"s concerns, I vote for a Browning 1911 style .380. About 85% of a standard 1911, rock solid and easy shooter with little felt recoil.

I like the 9mm since I heard a questionable reliable source it can blow someone's lung out.

AK Hunter said:

...a Bersa thunder .380 & it shoots easy. ....

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I second that suggestion. Or a S&W M&P Shield 380 EZ. Also Sig P365 if the S&W is too large for purpose.

ThomasT said:

A 380 fired from one of the tiny pocket guns is not pleasant. I know this and still just bought another pocket 380. This time a Kel-Tec 380. And the ammo was the cheapest I could find locally and it was $30.30 for 50 rounds. I have owned other 380s that weren't bad at all to shoot. They were steel framed guns to. An Astra Constable I was totally stupid for selling and a couple of the single action FIE Titan autos that looked like small sized Beretta 92s with there open slides. Those were very good guns.

But if I ever buy another 380 it will be one of these or the Beretta's they were copied from. I really want one of these too and saw a YT video on them and they looked good.

https://aimsurplus.com/products/tisas-fatih-380b-380-auto-handgun

That being said considering the ammo cost on 380 I think I would stick with 9mm and just buy a bigger sized or heavier gun in 9mm. Or like the other poster suggested get a 32 caliber revolver. Or even a 32acp semi auto. But not the tiny pocket model. Something along the lines of a Walther PP or some of the older CZ guns Aim had for sale a while back for just over $200. I love shooting my Walther PP. Made in 1957. Same year I was made.

Forgot to mention but a good quality 22 is never a mistake. I have two of the Ruger standard model autos, one with 4.5" barrel and the second with a 6" barrel and I have never had a single malfunction with either one. The 6" gun is fairly new but the 4.5" model is a 1976 bicentennial I have had since 2003 and I have shot the hell out of that gun.

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Those .380 Berettas are blowback and I assume the Turkish versions are too.

I only bring this up because in my hands, a same size locked breech 9mm pistol feels softer shooting.

Which means I’d (me personally) really look for something else in .380. Too bad the shrunken poly framed Browning 1911-380 isn’t heavier than it is. A locked breech.380 around 25 to 28 ounces in that size would sure soak up some recoil.

Very little in life is free. Adequate self defense requires some compromise.

That statement is not caliber specific. It's a life style philosophy.

I hope the OP finds the compromise he needs, but choices under 9mm are fewer.

chicharrones said:

Those .380 Berettas are blowback ....

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The 80 series (or least my 84 Cheetah for sure) is locked breech:
View attachment 1082146
... though it does have a really stiff recoil spring, just like a blow-back. So even though it's a locked-breech steel frame (well, OK, alloy), and kind of like a down-sized 92, I wouldn't recommend for the OP.

CoalCrackerAl said:

The SW 380 EZ you may like too. I have one. It's a pleasure to shoot. Accurate and easy to rack. It was one of my guns i shot as my finger joint replacment heals.

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The EZ was going to be my suggestion, I've not shot one but I've heard there tame in recoil and easy to jack a round in for older well worn arthritic mitts. I like the way the Performance Center model looks. I'm not necessarily a fan of ported handguns but I've thought about getting one for my wife who has tiny lil twig wrists.....

The Bersa .380(I have the standard) is snappier and a lot less fun to shoot than my Shield Plus PC and Shield 2.0, and as for carry about equal. When I spend enough time practicing with the .380 to remain proficient, SH thumb gets rubbed sore.

wiscoaster said:

The 80 series (or least my 84 Cheetah for sure) is locked breech:
View attachment 1082146
... though it does have a really stiff recoil spring, just like a blow-back. So even though it's a locked-breech steel frame (well, OK, alloy), and kind of like a down-sized 92, I wouldn't recommend for the OP.

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The Beretta 80 series is certainly NOT locked breech.
It is one of my favorite carry guns. Recoil is not too bad, and the barrel is long enough to get the most out of the cartridge. 14rds onboard is nice too. Just an excellent handling pistol. Some do complain about having a hard time racking the slide.

amd6547 said:

The Beretta 80 series is certainly NOT locked breech.

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Well, OK, then, what IS the proper term for the Beretta 80 series action? It's not like any of my blowback guns (Walther PPK eg) where the barrel is fixed to the frame:

View attachment 1082174

amd6547 said:

The Beretta 80 series is certainly NOT locked breech.
It is one of my favorite carry guns. Recoil is not too bad, and the barrel is long enough to get the most out of the cartridge. 14rds onboard is nice too. Just an excellent handling pistol. Some do complain about having a hard time racking the slide.

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Captain Obvious hint : Cocking it first eliminates having to fight both the recoil spring and the hammer spring at the same time. Obvious, but it took a while for this idea to occur to this old coot. Duh.

Awkward, and about 40% dangerous in some situations, but there you have it.

Captain Obvious, 230RN

wiscoaster said:

Well, OK, then, what IS the proper term for the Beretta 80 series action? It's not like any of my blowback guns (Walther PPK eg) where the barrel is fixed to the frame:

View attachment 1082174

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The 80 series is a blowback gun with a user removable barrel.

The barrel isn’t fixed to the frame, but the barrel isn’t used for lock up. Which means the barrel doesn’t use a pivoting link, cam slot, or locking block that makes the barrel lock to the slide.

The barrel on the 80 series simply butts up against the frame at the bottom of the chamber and the slide is simply pressed against the chamber by the recoil spring. The barrel does not tilt or reciprocate when the slide is moved back and forth, which is a sign of unlocking.

Here’s a video showing the locking block under the barrel of a 92. The 80s don’t have that.

OK, thanks guys, I guess I have some study time coming up wrt to proper action terminology.

My very elderly mother was able to qualify for her CCW using a Walther PK380. Similar to the Shield EZ, it is designed for the slide to be racked very easily, and even for her it recoils very lightly. She has a laser on hers, but I think it hinders more than helps her.



https://waltherarms.com/pk380/

230RN said:

Captain Obvious hint : Cocking it first eliminates having to fight both the recoil spring and the hammer spring at the same time. Obvious, but it took a while for this idea to occur to this old coot. Duh.

Awkward, and about 40% dangerous in some situations, but there you have it.

Captain Obvious, 230RN

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True, but those round headed hammer spurs can be relatively slippery little suckers. Might as well be like grappling raw oysters in some situations.

chicharrones said:

True, but those round headed hammer spurs can be relatively slippery little suckers. Might as well be like grappling raw oysters in some situations.

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That's why I said 40%. Mainly to remove a live cartdrige from a DA hammer-down condition.

The "40%" is an arbitrary level of danger for dangers ranging from "Oh, drat" (about 5%) to "Run away quickly or else" (100%).

Terry, 230RN