In Your Opinion, How Many Rounds Is An M&P15 Sport II Good For?

jmr40 said:

I've seen tests going over 20,000 rounds of 223 with no measurable loss of accuracy.

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I’ve never seen a test with such high roundcount without measurable change, but rather in these tests, barrels make it that far without falling below a certain standard. I’ve also never gotten anywhere close to that many rounds from anything larger than 22LR without seeing accuracy or velocity changes - including 223/5.56 barrels. Whether stainless, nitrided, chrome lined, doesn’t matter, barrels change long before 20,000.

Highpower competition tends to be the best barometer of barrel life for accuracy of 223/5.56, with most shooters replacing button rifled barrels around 3000, and cut rifled barrels around 4000, or as much as 5000. As another common dataset, Go-fast gunners in 3 gun will often triple or quadruple that roundcount, but obviously don’t have the same standard for precision and stability, so that 20k mark becomes far more attainable - again, living at a minimum standard limit rather than “no measurable change.”

I do recommend replacing the bolt when you replace the barrel. Stoner designed the thing to last 6,000 rounds, which was the Army endurance test. I am sure he added some margin. On AR15.com there was a thread where posters told how many rounds it took to crack the lugs, and 12,000 to 15,000 was typical for "cost effective" bolts. I asked the AMU about their bolt lifetime, and they were using Carpenter steel, shot peened bolts and getting around 30.000 rounds.

You will know when the barrel is shot out. When your 100 yard groups show keyholing, you aint' got any rifling left. My experience in NRA Highpower a high mileage barrel will still shoot tight at 300 yards, but does not cluster worth a hoot at 600 yards. I forget what throat erosion was considered tipping point time, maybe someone remembers. Driving 2 to 3 hours for an across the course match, shooting and pulling targets all day to find that at long range, your barrel is toast, sure makes the drive home miserable.

A bud of mine, now he shot F Class. He had 400 rounds on his 6 or 6.5 mm rifle when he drove out the the Whitington Center to shoot in the F Class Nations. His groups got larger and larger as the week went on. He was cleaning his barrel between relays, hoping by removing fouling, the barrel would last. It did not. Somewhere near 1000 rounds cumulative, his barrel **** the bed. Months afterwards, he was still in a hair pulling mood. And, talk about it now, and he still gets agitated. "The winner had over 2000 rounds on his barrel!"

We all can hear the train coming, coming down the tracks. Toot, Toot, crash!

Slamfire said:

"The winner had over 2000 rounds on his barrel!"

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Maybe it was a Blaser

I'd cross that 15k round bridge when you get there. Say the Sport really is a write-off at that point - getting $5000-$7000 in shooting out of a $600 rifle is money well spent.

Well, I mean, maybe he's right, but a $600 AR-15 lasting 15,000 rounds before major part replacement (barrel, bolt group) is pretty good, so I'd just shoot for the next decade or so and then either replace the parts or replace the gun lol.

.....and one time...at band camp......

Oh how I miss the days of public ranges and the know-it-alls that populate them. Not really. I guess dude doesn't know the barrel is a user-replaceable part. Or that they're expected to wear out.

Really, how many people worry about exceeding 15,000 rounds? And those that do, can just replace the barrel. This sounds like a silly conversation.

With the price of rounds now, if you shoot one out, you can afford to buy a new one.

Price of the AR is not a reliable indicator of how long it will last. It may have premium parts and better quality control but not necessarily so. The guy most likely is proud of his rifle and thinks that it is true. Maybe his way of bragging. I would not argue with the guy but not take it seriously either. Wear items are easily replaced with quality items when needed.

I remember Noveske was once flirting with the idea of barrels being made of super steel - but in the end, they decided it brought the cost up too much and it really wasn't worth it given how easy it is to replace barrels.

Madcap_Magician said:

Well, I mean, maybe he's right, but a $600 AR-15 lasting 15,000 rounds before major part replacement (barrel, bolt group) is pretty good

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15,000 rounds with subsequent replacement of a $75 barrel isn’t a matter of ditching the rifle when those rounds have been fired and the original barrel burnt. Replace the barrel, gas rings, bolt, and a few springs at that point for around $150 and it’ll run another 15,000.

I can't wrap my brain around the idea of shooting 15,000 rounds -- and from one gun, at that! Doesn't the shooter have any other interests in life?

No worries. I have an extra barrel I will send you when it happens. If we are both still alive.

Varminterror said:

The $2000-3000 AR’s he was trying to sell you would keyhole just as soon as your S&W M&P Sport II.

Dude’s a dummy.

Equally, wearing out a barrel isn’t the end of an AR’s life. We don’t buy new cars every time we need new tires or an oil change.

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Exactly, and a new barrel will most likely be less expensive than a new set of tires and an oil change. Or these days a tank of gas.

Scrod314 said:

Hey, everyone... It seems like this thread has digressed to, "I'm worried about shooting my AR too much and it wearing our." I'm not at all. I look to you guys as extremely knowledgeable and all of you have way more experience than me. I just wanted your opinions, as it is invaluable to me.
I'm not worried my AR is going to wear out.

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I think you missed the point some of us tried to convey:

GO TRY TO WEAR OUT YOUR NEW AR.

AlexanderA said:

Doesn't the shooter have any other interests in life?

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Other interests??? Does. Not. Compute.

The Glockodile said:

Maybe it was a Blaser

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A hunting partner of mine had an injury while hunting on horseback and in the process, his Blaser was lost in the mountains when the horses bolted. Bet it is still out there somewhere in miserable shape after 15 years of snowpack and thaw. Only Blaser I've ever held. Weird magazines, very expensive.

People seem to look at wearing out a barrel as a thing of shame. They don't have a problem with spending the $20k in ammo to do it but the $100 for a new barrel is a hardship.

I see it as more of a privilege and badge of honor. It's money I'm happy to spend. I'm ashamed I've never had to.

CraigC said:

Other interests??? Does. Not. Compute.

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I mean, shooting 15,000 rounds would take a lot of time, not to mention expense. These two things would crowd out other pastimes.

Normal human beings (those that actually have lives) are not going to wear out an AR. They may put some cosmetic marks on it.

Other pastimes, along with being "normal", are not things I've ever placed much value on. YMMV but I don't really see 15k as a lot for one gun. I have over 30k out of one Single Six.

Many of us can't (or won't) afford that much ammo for the hobby, and a barrel may cost $250-300, if that.

and some guy at the range commented on my M&P15 Sport II that it is only good for 15,000 rounds before it will lose accuracy and start "key-holing".

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Next time, tell them after you burn through $(how much 15k rounds costs you), you’ll blow the extra $160 on a new barrel. Who knows, you might just splurge and get one before it starts keyholing…

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/685570

AlexanderA said:

I mean, shooting 15,000 rounds would take a lot of time, not to mention expense. These two things would crowd out other pastimes.

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Eh, there are a LOT of hours in a week…

Shooting is my primary hobby, but it’s not the only thing I do with my time. Hitting 15,000rnds through a rifle is super simple, especially if a person is even remotely involved with a competitive specialization. When I was shooting action shooting sports like Cowboy Action and 3 gun, I would easily burn through 10,000+ rounds per year in my primary match rifles or pistols, some years more than twice that. Now, shooting predominantly PRS, I spread my shooting between 2-3 barrels, but I burn out two 6 creed barrels and a 6 Dasher barrel each season, totaling around 6,000 rounds fired, and I put around 2500-4000 rounds of 223 downrange each season still, whether in LR practice, pleasure plinking, or trying to stay somewhat proficient with my HD gasser. I usually get a few thousand rounds of 9mm and 40 downrange each year still, and usually 1 or 2 cases of 12ga.

Outside of shooting, I also coach youth sports 4 seasons per year (football, wrestling, baseball, wrestling), 3-6 days per week depending upon the sport, work a full time job in technology development, run books for my wife’s bespoke bakery, operate a wedding & portrait/family photography side business, then split my years kinda back and forth between handing a few clients for financial coaching and technical professional recruiting. I also hunt, my wife makes me fish, and with whatever spare evenings I have, I like to train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Judo (used to kickbox and train MMA for a handful of years as a sparring partner for our gym’s pro fighters, but my striking always sucks). I like to lift weights, run a bit and cycle to keep the fat off as much as I can tolerate.

It’s probably fair to acknowledge that 40% of Americans are “obese,” so certainly it could be expected that “normal” Americans lead a more sedentary lifestyle than does my family, but I wouldn’t ever count myself as anything beyond a “normal person.”