Most robust (true) pocket pistol

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Autodidactic said:
I think all of this militates in favor of not telling most people that we even carry or own firearms.
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Agree on not telling 99.9% of folks I carry. I will talk owning and shooting guns to the right people, but I leave the carry part out of it. It goes sideways in many cases, even amongst "gun" folks.

Of course, here I am at THR yappin' my brains out. ;)
 
CDW4ME said:
Why would we discuss pocket pistols and exclude caliber? I said a couple of 380 loads meet my definition of decent: 12''+ and consistent expansion.
If people don't agree with my definition of decent bullet performance they could ignore it, same as ignore your definition of true pocket pistol. We are both posting our opinions and odds are many would agree with what you view as true pocket size same as they would agree that 12''+ penetration with consistent expansion is desirable.
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As you've mentioned this a couple times on this thread, I'll add my 2 cents.

You're right on the money that the .380acp struggles to get JHPs to 12"+ of penetration, and also expand well. No argument from me there.

Which is why I load my G42 with Underwood's 68gr Xtreme Defender .380 +P. At around 1400fps (even if it were 1300fps it'd be okay) it's fast enough that it should throw fluidized flesh into a decent wound cavity, but is light enough to slow down quickly and therefore not drastically over penetrate.

Some people think they're a gimmick. Those people are welcome to their opinion. I've shot enough of it to know it groups well enough to give practical accuracy in my gun. And it functions fine. I think it's a great option for the G42. Probably not all .380 pocket pistols though.
 
chicharrones said:
Agree on not telling 99.9% of folks I carry. I will talk owning and shooting guns to the right people, but I leave the carry part out of it. It goes sideways in many cases, even amongst "gun" folks.

Of course, here I am at THR yappin' my brains out. ;)
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Right, lol, I labor under the illusion of anonymity.

But, yes, I suspect most people would be less shocked I owned a gun than the fact I often am carrying a loaded gun in public. The former I’m okay telling people. Probably literally 10 people know I carry.
 
Back to most robust pocket pistols, IF we include Glock 42s, likely those are very durable. Same as noted all the old school quality, metal pocket pistols. Sig 238 for newer, etc.

My S&W M&P Bodyguard seems durable, but it has a mag drop problem during recoil lol.

Guys, we forgot all steel Bond Arms derringers. They certainly are “robust,” built like tanks. If one takes care of one many of us suspect they will last as long as all these other classic guns.
 
Autodidactic said:
… Sig 238 ….
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Beat me to it! In dress slacks, the typical .380’s (LCP, P3AT, RM380…) are easy to pocket carry. The Sig p238 is heavier but works easily.

the Sig P938 is also easy (& I imagine the Springfield 911, too). I find the Khar CM9 works, and even the old Kel Tec P11. I don’t have a Sig P365, & haven’t tried my Hellcat but they might work depending on the cut of the slacks and the size of the pocket.
 
Autodidactic said:
I don’t think 9mm subcompacts count as true pocket pistols.
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Autodidactic said:
Your 9 mm examples aren’t pocket pistols, except the Kahr.
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Autodidactic said:
G43 isn’t a true pocket pistol lol. 42 is possibly, on the border
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Autodidactic said:
what is the need for these other guns to be "pocket pistols" when really, they aren't considered such now days?

It seems to me what you are trying to do is again push ideal carry (to you) handguns and power, and then claim they are pocket pistols to prove your point.
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Autodidactic said:
1) actual borderline pocket pistol
2) not pocket pistol
3) not pocket pistol
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Look at your quotes and apply the bold part to yourself; you are literally telling people (dictating) what is or is not a pocket pistol.
 
Next to the G42, I think the M&P 380 Bodyguard, or how ever you called it, is the most robust in the smaller pocketable pistols for the average non Tactical Timmy. And it doesn’t hurt that it very accurate. I actually put down a large Southern Illinois corn fed doe that was hit by a car. She was already about 10 yards from us, on another side of a rather deep ditch. She got up and started to walk briskly across a very muddy field and I drew my BG and shoot her, moving, at about 15 yards. Good back of the head/upper neck poacher shot. DRT. I remember the sheriff’s deputy was impressed, as was I! LOL. It drew very smoothly from a DeSantis Superfly and the Extreme Penetrators did the trick.
 
I have two true pocket pistols. I carry them in the hip pocket of my jeans year round and they don't show even without a shirt or jacket over them. I've been around numerous police officers in gun stores and never been called on them. They're AMT Backups, one in 380 and one in 45ACP. I've carried the 380 for 30 years with no problems. I've only carried the 45 for a couple years, but again no problems. Solid stainless steel should hold up well.
 
CDW4ME said:
Look at your quotes and apply the bold part to yourself; you are literally telling people (dictating) what is or is not a pocket pistol.
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Not everything is a pocket pistol. Generally speaking, in modern parlance, usually the micro pistols such as LCPs, Seecamps, Bodyguards, etc, are considered "pocket pistols." Stop trying to change every thread into CDW4ME's 72nd ideal carry handgun/cartridge thread.
 
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Many years ago, I read an article by a guy who had shot several then-popular (and legal to import) .25s and even a small .22 or two. He shot them on a range in NYC(!), 500 rounds of factory loads each, keeping notes on malfunctions. Of which there were a number. I don't recall which if any of the guns were 100%.
 
Autodidactic said:
Or any other job where it takes you to prohibited location (for firearms) legally. Sure, if riots are going down or some apocalyptic things, some may decide to take the risk. Or leave in the car. But, for many of us it's not worth losing our job or worse, legal problems.

Probably the car solution may work for many, as it's harder to detect. With schools one can still get in legal trouble with that. But let's say it's just an employer forbidding firearms even in cars, that's a different beast and question if it's not illegal but one could lose their job if found out. What are they going to do, search your car? Maybe if a high security place. But I think the bigger risk is being ratted out.

When I worked for the government for many years, each job had metal detectors and guards when coming in. Actually, at one location I think they were police. I didn't carry there obviously.

But yes, as far as dressing for it, like you said it's not always possible or advisable either. This is why true pocket pistols like you said are great. I carried a S&W Bodyguard .380 to the gym tonight.

I think all of this militates in favor of not telling most people that we even carry or own firearms. For me, it's a need-to-know basis mostly with close friends and family. I've literally never told a coworker thus far. That's partly because 90% of my coworkers are hyper lefties.
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Your situation sounds a lot like mine!

The snubs and ec9 types can print quite a bit. Sometimes, the NAA mini can go and prints like a bic lighter.

My own lcp experiences suggest they wouldn't hold up to the strenuous practice. Not to say they aren't great and have their place. They carry well and flat and you can absolutely forget they're there in 99 percent of circumstances.

Are the tomcats pretty durable with standard pressure rounds? I imagine the new inox 21a would hold up to a lot of standard pressure 22 lr. I had heard or users cracking frames on the tomcats.
 
Autodidactic said:
Not everything is a pocket pistol. Generally speaking, in modern parlance, usually the micro pistols such as LCPs, Seecamps, Bodyguards, etc, are considered "pocket pistols." Stop trying to change every thread into CDW4ME's 72nd ideal carry handgun/cartridge thread.
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You dictating (attempting to) what is or is not a pocket pistol and its not your thread.
I'm posting my opinion on the subject ̶s̶a̶m̶e̶ less than you.
You are doing what you accuse me of but can't (or won't) see that.
black-the-kettle-you-are-calling-but-potyou-are.jpg

Lets see what others consider a pocket pistol.
Google "best pocket pistols"
https://www.americanfirearms.org/best-pocket-pistols/ Sig 365 in on that list.
https://gunnewsdaily.com/best-pocket-pistols/ Ruger LC9 which is bigger than a 365 in on that list
https://thegunzone.com/best-pocket-pistols/ LC9 again
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-pocket-pistols/ Glock 43, Sig 365
https://pistolwizard.com/best-pocket-pistols-for-concealed-carry Glock 43, Sig 365, Hellcat
https://www.gunmade.com/best-pocket-pistols/ Sig 365 again

There ya go ^ and its not me saying it.
 
I think all the above tend to fall into belt gun realm if we're being honest.
J frames as well, except for maybe lcrs/airweight by virtue of their light total weight loaded/power offered.

A fully loaded lcr with 90 or 110 gr critical defense is a pretty good personal defense weapon, arguments for LCR/airweight 22s as well. More rounds (8 usually) and with something like velociters or punch youre going to hit that 12 inch mark.

Lcp/238 I would say qualify for pockets, the latter has proven very robust. My wife has had hers for around 8 years, several defensive pistol courses, ccw quals, daily carry, tons of range time.

Thus far no spring changes or breakages etc.

Perhaps the 238 (and it's ilk) are the robust kings of the proper pocket pistol? Thoughts?

I've stuck my hellcat in a vedder pocket holster and I've carried it, but it does look (and feel) like I've got a laptop in my pocket lol.
 
CDW4ME said:
You dictating (attempting to) what is or is not a pocket pistol and its not your thread.
I'm posting my opinion on the subject ̶s̶a̶m̶e̶ less than you.
You are doing what you accuse me of but can't (or won't) see that.
View attachment 1083850

Lets see what others consider a pocket pistol.
Google "best pocket pistols"
https://www.americanfirearms.org/best-pocket-pistols/ Sig 365 in on that list.
https://gunnewsdaily.com/best-pocket-pistols/ Ruger LC9 which is bigger than a 365 in on that list
https://thegunzone.com/best-pocket-pistols/ LC9 again
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-pocket-pistols/ Glock 43, Sig 365
https://pistolwizard.com/best-pocket-pistols-for-concealed-carry Glock 43, Sig 365, Hellcat
https://www.gunmade.com/best-pocket-pistols/ Sig 365 again

There ya go ^ and its not me saying it.
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Most of those are not pocket pistols per normative, modern classification. Those sources apparently decided all concealed carry/subcompacts are "pocket pistols" lol. I bet those authors don't pocket carry either for the most part, but instead are IWB'ing those. Also, again, I’m using the common view that “pocket pistol” means micro pistol, like an LCP sized gun. The Glock 43 is as big as a Shield Plus. I already provided the HandgunHero size comparison. A Shield Plus is not a pocket pistol. We've already acknowledged that the smallest of the subcompacts such as a Hellcat or Kahr maybe count, just as a Glock 42 gets the nod. But, they are borderline. I would throw them in as honorary pocket pistols in that they can be fit into the role.
defjon said:
I think all the above tend to fall into belt gun realm if we're being honest.
J frames as well, except for maybe lcrs/airweight by virtue of their light total weight loaded/power offered.

A fully loaded lcr with 90 or 110 gr critical defense is a pretty good personal defense weapon, arguments for LCR/airweight 22s as well. More rounds (8 usually) and with something like velociters or punch youre going to hit that 12 inch mark.

Lcp/238 I would say qualify for pockets, the latter has proven very robust. My wife has had hers for around 8 years, several defensive pistol courses, ccw quals, daily carry, tons of range time.

Thus far no spring changes or breakages etc.

Perhaps the 238 (and it's ilk) are the robust kings of the proper pocket pistol? Thoughts?

I've stuck my hellcat in a vedder pocket holster and I've carried it, but it does look (and feel) like I've got a laptop in my pocket lol.
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Like you said. And agreed.

Most people are fooling themselves if they think subcompacts or even jframes work well for a lot of pockets. I wish they did. Then can be forced to, or with exceptionally large pockets it works.
 
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I had the max, and it was very similar in size to a normal lcp. The loaded weight with 12 95 grain flat points or 90 grain critical defense/sig v crown added up though it still didn't feel too bad.

I only had it briefly, no one I had shoot it could do much with it at seven yards. Groups- loosely used- sort of looked like a scatter gun target.

Never tried the hostage shot at five yards but even then I would definitely hesitate and not feel very good about taking that shot. It was universally inaccurate and I'm not sure why. I actually love and enjoy mouse guns and over the last couple decades have found you can really reach out and do a lot better than you'd think with them.

For example with an airweight or LCR, I can plink a steel target at 25 years every time. Not bragging, it was a hard won thing. I had 22 lr understudies to work out trigger finger and sight alignment.

Now these are transferable skills, I picked up a steel frame j frame and immediately ringing steel at this distance. They aren't very big targets, so it makes me feel good having something accurate and reasonably powerful that is easy to keep with me and permissible in most environments.

The p238 and 938 are both very accurate like this as well. Edge going to the 938 for me.

The 380 seemed to really come alive with a longer barrel, like the bersa. Again not quite a pocket gun that one.
 
defjon said:
I had the max, and it was very similar in size to a normal lcp. The loaded weight with 12 95 grain flat points or 90 grain critical defense/sig v crown added up though it still didn't feel too bad.

I only had it briefly, no one I had shoot it could do much with it at seven yards. Groups- loosely used- sort of looked like a scatter gun target.

Never tried the hostage shot at five yards but even then I would definitely hesitate and not feel very good about taking that shot. It was universally inaccurate and I'm not sure why. I actually love and enjoy mouse guns and over the last couple decades have found you can really reach out and do a lot better than you'd think with them.

For example with an airweight or LCR, I can plink a steel target at 25 years every time. Not bragging, it was a hard won thing. I had 22 lr understudies to work out trigger finger and sight alignment.

Now these are transferable skills, I picked up a steel frame j frame and immediately ringing steel at this distance. They aren't very big targets, so it makes me feel good having something accurate and reasonably powerful that is easy to keep with me and permissible in most environments.

The p238 and 938 are both very accurate like this as well. Edge going to the 938 for me.

The 380 seemed to really come alive with a longer barrel, like the bersa. Again not quite a pocket gun that one.
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I wouldn't mind an LCP Max, but I had a POS LCP I that was completely opposite the claimed ultra reliability. Yes, I know, could be a lemon. It soured me a bit on the series.

I now have a Bodyguard .380. Definitely easy to conceal, but it has a mag drop problem during recoil. The gun basically recoils the oddly placed mag release button into your hand. Strangely, the only gun I've had this happen also was a Glock 42.

I have a 642 to that I adore. I've found that if I practice regularly with it, I get decent. But, it almost feels like if I stop practicing, my skills deteriorate quicker than semi-autos sadly. BUT, I definitely like revolvers. An LCR would be sweet, perhaps in .22.
 
The lcr in 22 lr was very sweet. You can get the even more concealable boot grips which definitely help in the pockets. You're not unarmed with the 8 shots. I carried a flat speed strip in the other pocket with more rounds just in case.

Wish I hadn't sold it. I think the lcrx makes even more sense, trigger pull is always much heavier on the 22s vs the 38/357.

My lcp was maybe 75-85% but that doesn't give you warm fuzzies when carried for defense of your life! It made me wary and so eventually got traded towards the 938.

I'm still not convinced of a single action pistol in the pockets. I had a variety of nice holsters and the safety could swick off with all of them. Made me go back to the small revolver for pockets.

My wife stuck with the 238 but she will only carry condition 3 despite what myself and all the trainers say. She practices this style so it is what it is.

I never had the Taurus ply or Beretta 21a take themselves off safety. But they required a more affirmative action to move the safety.

I could shoot the Taurus TCP better than the lcp Max but it felt so flimsy. No jams in a few boxes for me but my friends wife needed an affordable ccw so off it went.
 
defjon said:
The lcr in 22 lr was very sweet. You can get the even more concealable boot grips which definitely help in the pockets. You're not unarmed with the 8 shots. I carried a flat speed strip in the other pocket with more rounds just in case.

Wish I hadn't sold it. I think the lcrx makes even more sense, trigger pull is always much heavier on the 22s vs the 38/357.

My lcp was maybe 75-85% but that doesn't give you warm fuzzies when carried for defense of your life! It made me wary and so eventually got traded towards the 938.

I'm still not convinced of a single action pistol in the pockets. I had a variety of nice holsters and the safety could swick off with all of them. Made me go back to the small revolver for pockets.

My wife stuck with the 238 but she will only carry condition 3 despite what myself and all the trainers say. She practices this style so it is what it is.

I never had the Taurus ply or Beretta 21a take themselves off safety. But they required a more affirmative action to move the safety.

I could shoot the Taurus TCP better than the lcp Max but it felt so flimsy. No jams in a few boxes for me but my friends wife needed an affordable ccw so off it went.
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Yeah I didn’t feel like I could rely on my LCP I sold. It was having FTE’s left and right. My bodyguard actually shoots reliably. The issue is the mag release not firing.

How is the 21a? I want one something fierce. I have a Tomcat that functions great if clean. After about 50-75 rounds it will begin having issues.

I agree about preferring the LCRx with single action available
 
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My 21 a was an older blued model, it ran okay...I'm not entirely sold on the small pocket 22 semi autos.

When I carried it or the ply, I would fire them cold first thing and even with premium ammo I would occasionally have a round not go off or even jam. I think it's the nature of the beast with those platforms. Even with possible rimlock the 32 is probably more reliable in the tomcats but I question their robustness for regular practice. I think they fall into the carry lots shoot little. But I want to practice lots with what I carry.

I honestly think for 22 the NAA mini or lcrx are the best bet. With a dud round you can just go to the next. Due to their design, clearing a jam in the 21a isn't fun or terribly smooth.
 
Tip up barrel is cool, and they're designed not to have to rack for for folks with poor hand strength but that means cleaning a jam isn't easy
 
Can’t believe I haven’t seen anyone say NAA mini.

Per the OP’s specs, it’ll fit anyones definitions of a pocket pistol, and they are very robust.

It’s almost like more than those two things matter.
 
“Pocket carry” is a pretty nebulous term. Based on your body type, size, choice of clothing. What pocket? Front pants pocket, jacket pocket or coat pocket, Bib pocket in a set of overalls?


In a pair of cargo shorts, I can carry my SP-101.

But, in blue jeans, front pocket carry is pretty much out for me. I wear my jeans pretty snug.

46C411A3-DE62-4F33-AE6A-97562DA2FCA2.jpeg

These two would, for me, be “pocket carry” but, in my back pocket.

43A728C4-3820-41D9-8AC9-F1FC0A640580.jpeg C11743D2-4DF1-4822-98F8-D408ACE88F67.jpeg

Trying to convince others of what constitutes a pocket gun could be a long endless debate. With no clear winner.
 
It can surely vary, but it's like that quote about pornography. "I know it when I see it" lol.

Id say the last two count as pocket guns. Owned several sp101s. When my regular carry went down I even pocket carried one but I would say it's weight is too much for front pocket pants.

The NAA mini has been referenced multiple times in my original post and many subsequent posts. They are generally reliable. No one argues a single action short barrel 22 is ideal.

Under frequent heavy practice I've heard of them breaking main springs ( as previously referenced).

Since 2008 or so I've had at least one and never experienced this issue myself. Highly recommend them as an always gun and backup to whatever else you happen to carry.

I also recommend the folding grip on those. It doesn't add much to it's weight or profile, doesn't slow down the draw, gives you a proper grip and also guards the trigger which makes them a lot safer to carry. Good strong pocket clip goes anywhere.
 
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