A question for the Old Guards in reloading.

Skgreen said:

I can tell you what I think you don't need, but there will be some objections.

Mostly from folks with Machinist or similar background's and / or those who are operating on the ragged edge in the pursuit of absolute accuracy. (Neither one applies to me)

IMHO, I'd be hard pressed to shoot the difference made by using a "professionally crafted top-dollar" caliper instead of my $30 got it off Amazon mechanical dial caliper. In my situation, the $30.00 caliper is the most cost-effective.

As always, YMMV.

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I was an aerospace machinist for 10 years. Decided one day there were better ways to make money. Maybe I was a little premature in that decision but overall it’s worked out fairly well.
That’s just some background to let you know I’m one of those folks you assume will insist a set of $400 calipers is “essential” reloading gear.
Have a look:

Those are the dial calipers I use for all of my reloading work. Do you recognize them? Midway USA. I got them on sale. Free shipping, too.

Be careful with assumptions.

KansasTrapper77 said:

Eastern Kansas farm boy in Omaha.

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I feel your pain… a eastern SoDak country boy in Lincoln. Sigh… fortunately I go to my folks almost out to mcCook. And a family friend has an 800 yard range…
I’m relatively new to reloading myself, though I have been around it and done it on others equipment… uuuum…. Almost 20 years, though not always active…. The things I have found so far is quality dies are worth it. Careful brass inspection is crucial. I’ve already expanded the bench… and it will now have room for the “someday” progressive set up. I’m working on adding more/ better prep equipment. A wet tumbler. A good set of mics. The power adapter to my Lyman case trimmer. And a better scale. And a chronograph.

KansasTrapper77 said:

Well my goal was to find out from you fellas when Amazon Calipers and other “ that’ll do” worked and the Chinese (insert item here) didn’t.

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I can use $20 dial calipers because I’m an experienced machinist. I know how to use them. If you have any doubts about your ability to get repeatable results from a cheap piece of equipment, reconsider the purchase.

I got used Starrett dial calipers before I started reloading back around 1998.
As long as your scales, calipers can repeatedly give a measurement plus or minus a thousandth or plus or minus less than a 20th of a grain that's all the accuracy most people really need. You need repeatability in reloading. High precision isn't necessary because you don't need to perfectly copy some one else's ammo. (Usually)

Ive been loading for nearly 20 years. Single stage press, beam scale, and a lee hand prime are my bread and butter. I do like to use the micrometer powder throws for blasting ammo.

Of course you need all the little things too like deburring tools, primer pocket cleaners, bullet pullers, etc.

I run a full complement of starrett measuring tools, but im also a bit of a tool snob... You dont need $6000 dollars worth of tools. What you need is patience, experience, and common sense.
Consistency is king.

Start small and work your way up. Jumping in to a caliber like 22 hornet, 38-40, or 357 Herrett is not for a beginner. 9mm and 45 ACP are great starters. I started on .243 winchester for my deer rifle. Still running that load 20 years later and its just as deadly.

pin gauges and check weights, anything to calibrate or check calibration of scale, calipers etc. I also really like having primer go/no go checker for pockets. two scales, a beam and a digital, two one way or another IMHO, just to sanity check charge weights, and it would be hard to calibrate two different types of scales - with the same error and miss it. I'm not old guard by any means, but - these are things I added pretty quickly after starting to reload. The question about doing this or doing that correctly, and safety is there in my mind, and well - how do you know you're doing it correctly? You measure it. Well, if the tool isn't calibrated, you really don't know if that measurement is correct.

In a thread like this, nearly very reloading tool gets mentioned. Not complaining, just reloading can be very personal (and different). I started with a Lee Loader, a pound of Bullseye, a mallet, 200 generic lead bullets, and a 4"x16" log. Second purchase was a beam scale. I assembled some safe, accurate handloads for about 12-14 month. I believe 90% of making safe, accurate, consistent handloads is the reloader. A thoughtful, focused reloader a produce excellent handloads with minimal junky tools, and the guy in hurry using sloppy methods, "guesstimtes" for data cannot make safe, accurate handloads even with the most expensive, numerous reloading tools.

1) Most “cost effective” reloading gear is painfully slow to use, and will make the user wish they had not tried to be quite so “cost effective.”

2) On my bench, I can’t imagine being without the combination of Dillon rifle case feeder + AmpMate + Giraud trimmer, and the Autothrow + autotrickle + FX-120i for powder dispensing. The Dillon feeder + AmpMate + AMP for annealing is also worth its weight in gold. Trimming (and deburring & Chamfering) and powder dispensing are typically painfully slow processes, as is annealing, and having these bits of kit to automate these processes make life SO much easier… I’m working to add a Dillon feeder to a new Lee APP to better automate decapping as well. Wet tumbling (no pins) + brass dryer are another bit of kit which simplify my life. I’d sure like to have an automated extractor groove marker, but haven’t quite decided how to make that work just yet. Everything else, I don’t mind so much.

Wow!

Folks are all over the board here.

I know I’m gonna get beat up for this but I use a digital RCBS caliper. I know what I’m looking for and if the number doesn’t make sense, I recalibrate at zero and start over. Maybe I got lucky but it’s never given me a problem.

I got a “Uniflow” powder drop when I bought my Rockchucker. 30 years later, I’ve never used it! But if I did I probably would have saved myself hours. Instead, I fill the trickler, I use a spoon to sift within .5 grains, then I trickle to whatever weight I’m looking for. The scale is a RCBS digital electronic.

My case trimmer is a Franklin Arsenal. Maybe not the best, but this one tool can be adapted to to trim most and rifle case. I can knock out 120-150 .233 cases an hour with it.

This combo builds pretty accurate rifle ammo.

For pistol and .223, I have an Dillion 550C that really pumps out ammo.

For shotgun, I load primarily with my OLD MEC 600 Jr. I have a progressive shot shell loader I bought 20+ years ago and have never used. My short sightedness tells me I can pump out 150 rounds before I ever get it set up.

South Prairie Jim said:

This 1000 yard group tells me I’m on the right path.

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Holes on target speak volumes.

Maybe some guidance from you will narrow down the possibilities. Are you a 100 rounds a month or a 300 rounds a week kind of guy... do you mostly shoot one round or 5 different pretty regular... fitting your gear to your needs is much easier when discipline is known. Plinking, bench rest, or pistol games. It's like picking a car and constraints give you useful recommendations instead of huge and random lists. Quality equipment doesn't guarantee quantity ammunition but it sure don't hurt.

A lot depends on how many cartridges you reload at one time. I typically load 100-200 cartridges at a time and so use manual tools. If you are into high volume 1000+ at a time a volumetric auto dispense would be necessary . I have found over the years buy the best you can afford and you will never be sorry. Keep a neat bench and before doing anything think safety first.

you’re not going to know until you buy it and try it. but I like:

manuals
calipers
reloading blocks
ziplock bags
little bins
sharpie
dremel
fliz
5 gallon bucket with lid
tupper wear
small shop vac
cold drink

KansasTrapper77 said:

1) What are the most cost effective tools/equipment to make quality ammunition?
Example, I understand consistent powder loads create consistent ammo. Is an electric powder dispenser worth the money or stick to a balance beam and trickler. What items stretch your dollar the furthest for quality ammunition?

2) What is the equipment on your bench that isn’t necessary but you can’t imagine living without nowadays?
The equipment that aids in the enjoyment of reloading.

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A1)I just realized it was 50 years ago today I started, 1972….gee thanks…. Same year as Agnes. Started on .22-250

Speer Manual
RCBS RC Jr
RCBS dies
RCBS balance
RCBS trickler
Ink pad and case lube
Powder funnel
Loading block

Had a mentor that showed how to use factory ammo to setup COL. There were a great number of woodchucks that didn’t appreciate the “quality” ammo.
I had to purchase a trim die when the cases wouldn’t chamber. Nothing fancy, I already had a bastard so I don’t count that. A calipers would have been nice to have, and even the less expensive like the Midway brand.

A2)You don’t want to go there, it invalidates 1).

When I got back into reloading, I went back and forth on what press to buy. Lots of folks advised single stage, which is solid advice. But I went with a progressive press (550C) and am glad I did, although cost is clearly a negative.

I am a volume reloader of 9MM and .38/.357, so it made sense for me. If I was loading just a few hundred rounds of hunting ammo, the single stage would have been the smarter choice.

I started with an electronic scale (Hornady Pocket Scale) and almost blew up my gun. I calibrated it every time but it consistently read 1.5 grains low. 4.2 grains was really 5.7! I am not knocking electronic scales, but I have decided to go with a beam scale.

I returned it and now use an old Redding beam scale. I check several throws from the powder thrower and when convinced it’s working well, then just load and spot check every 10 rounds. I stick with powder that meters well and the Dillon stays true for hundreds of rounds (or more)

Again, I am not currently loading precision rifle loads, so within a tenth of a grain either way is close enough for me. I find that I can get dead on accurate metering with certain powders in the Dillon, and that's how I generally decide. Currently transitioning to Vihtatuori N320 for 9MM and it meters very consistently.

Lots of ways to go. This path seems to be working for me.

Buy several reloading manuals first and use them as a guide for your equipment purchases.

chamfer and debur tool, I am always touching that thing.

I started with a trusty RCBS 5-0-5 scale but some years later, thinking it would be quicker for spot checking, pick ip a small Frankfort Arsenal electric scale.

Never really warmed up to it though, and ended up continuing to use the RCBS.

I do use the F/A scale occasionally to get quick measurements on bullets and brass but not for powder charges.

Also, haven't seen any mention of bullet pullers.

Of course the whole idea is to put em together but we've all, at some point, had to take some apart too.

I like hammer type pullers for short, stubby pistol bullets where the ogive rapidly begins at the case mouth or the very small shoulder of a soft lead SWC bullet might not offer enough purchase for collet type puller but the collet type is perfect for longer, straighter sides of typical rifle bullets and depending on the caliber you're pulling, lighter weight bullets where lack of mass might make it more difficult to use kinetic energy to knock them apart.

I started out buying cheap for 9mm and 223 with the Lee classic turret kit to get me going knowing that I’d be replacing inexpensive things as the need/want arises. New equipment buys you speed and/or precision.
I’ve replaced every single piece of that kit except the press and primer seating. Lol But I had to start somewhere.
Before I bought the kit I picked up a Frankfort Arsenal tumbler to clean my accumulated factory brass. Already had dial calipers.
2 inexpensive digital scales for redundancy. There are some really nice beam scales out there but the Lee isn’t one of them.
Lee auto disk. The Auto Drum was very frustrating. Always binding. The AutoDisk is nice in that you know exactly what you’re going to get with a given powder disk combination.
Lee perfect powder measure for easy fast adjustments when working up a load.
Worlds Finest trimmer
Lyman deburr tool
LE Wilson case gauge
RCBS military crimp remover
ProChrono DLX
Inertia bullet puller
EP Annealer will be my next purchase

Kaldor said:

Im both of those guys. Sometimes the best tool is simply the best tool. And sometimes the cheap tool is good enough. My tool box covers the range of Harbor Freight to Snap On, and I treat my reloading tools the same way. If I can cut a corner without hurting the process, absolutely, Im gonna do it. But just like anything that one specific tool can really make a difference, so I go buy that tool. And sometimes, Im just a tool that likes shiney tools

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I understand. I was a professional wrench - automobile heavy line - for years.

Sometimes one needs a special tool, or a tool that is only made by one company. I've still got some specialty tools that I've used once, and probably never will again.

As for the toolbox running from Harbor Freight to Snap-on, well...have you been peeking in my toolbox?

Buzznrose said:

I started with an electronic scale and almost blew up my gun. I calibrated it every time but it consistently read 1.5 grains low. 4.2 grains was really 5.7!

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This is precisely why I do not use, and cannot recommend, an electronic powder scale. I have heard too many versions of this story to have any faith in them. I consider them too dangerous to use.

With a balance scale one may at least view the counterweights on the poise, smack themselves in the head, and say "Poo ! I loaded 20 rounds that are 3 grains too heavy!"

An electronic scale is just a closed book.

I suggest to every new reloader the book "The ABCs of Reloading", I feel it is more in depth than just the front of reloading manuals but I suggest reading that also, more than one manual to compare loads (some powder companies have sites also)
I have the ink pad style lube pads but started using the alcohol/lanolin spray mixture and like it,
I bought a Lee "kit" so most of my stuff is Lee and a lot of the things I've bought since then is Lee also, if you are loading handgun or straight wall rifle you won't need a trimmer, the Lee lock stud works for low volume but the trim die is better for volume
I purchased a F.A. digital scale and use it to check my beam set more than trusting the digital, check weights are nice also, I bought a digital powder thrower and that speeds things up when loading rifle.
I like the universal decapping die to decap before cleaning
Acro bins or copies are nice to dump brass/bullets into on each side of the press, reloading blocks are a necessity also.
Calipers and a pin gauge close to the length you desire
Brass cleaner, there are multiple processes and goods and bads of each that will be up to you
Storage and more storage, I use plastic coffee or pretzel containers for brass labeled to caliber and how processed, I store loaded ammo in ammo cans, I like the plastic storage trays with adjustable bins to store extra parts and small tools
Look at a sewing machine light that has a magnetic base to light up inside your press
I like to have wrenches for adjusting and tightening dies and press bolts on a magnetic strip so I don't have to go to my toolbox.
Good luck with your reloading, if you can, find an experienced reloader to watch

I'm not OG, but been reloading for a little over a decade now. I think it depends on your objective. I reload to save money, not necessarily for the greatest accuracy, and it has paid for itself plenty. I have seen my improvement with a pistol due to being able to shoot to my heart's content, at least as far as ammo prices go (time on the other hand....)

Given my objectives, I run the following:

Lee turret press with different heads so I can switch calibers quickly. While I have other dies, I mainly load 45 Colt loads now. I thought about upgrading the press, but it works for me.

Carbide dies. I recently got into reloading rifle rounds and the extra lube steps are a bit of a pain. Maybe I'll try some of that spray lube in a ziploc bag next time.

I have multiple calipers, but the harbor freight/amazon/Chinese digital ones work fine for me. I do have a better quality caliper that my dad, a former tool and die guy, gave me. I just don't need that much precision. I honestly don't use them that often, as I don't typically change loads or bullets and use them to measure OAL.

Harbor freight rock tumbler with a small bag of steel pins. I should have done this years ago, but got it about 3 years ago. I did have to make some adjustments to it to make it run right, but now I can fill it up, turn it on, and in about 1-1.5 hours of run time have shiny clean brass.

Scales. I have two digital scales that work okay, but you have to watch them carefully. My primary one will occasionally add .4 grains on its own. I reset it and I weigh my charges a couple of times to make sure they are reasonably accurate. I wouldn't mind a more accurate scale but I would rather invest in more components, guns, or other hobby items (new waders and boots for fishing).

AJC1 said:

Maybe some guidance from you will narrow down the possibilities. Are you a 100 rounds a month or a 300 rounds a week kind of guy... do you mostly shoot one round or 5 different pretty regular... fitting your gear to your needs is much easier when discipline is known. Plinking, bench rest, or pistol games. It's like picking a car and constraints give you useful recommendations instead of huge and random lists. Quality equipment doesn't guarantee quantity ammunition but it sure don't hurt.

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I'm waiting for the answer to this question before commenting on any piece of specific gear.
To get an idea, I started reloading on a Lyman Spartan C-press. I used Lee and home-made dippers, a school lab surplus triple-beam scale (measuring in grams and converting), and a steel rule marked in 0.010" graduations. I hardly ever used the scale. Didn't need to. I was reloading Speer and Sierra .38Spl and .357Mag, seating to the crimp groove. No cast, no no-name bullets, no need to measure anything. I used two powders: Bullseye and Unique. I reloaded 6 or 12 rounds at a time using standing-pat recipes. For revolver and rifles with a cannelure for seating, you don't need a measuring tool other than your chamber.

So, @AJC1 's question hits the nail on the head: before I can answer I need to know what you're doing and how much experience you already have.

KansasTrapper77 said:

I have a RCBS beam scale and an RCBS hand primer. Both were my grandpa’s actually. A bit bummed I never got to reload with him but be just wasn’t organized enough and was too busy to teach me. My father (son-in-law to grandpa) and I finally decided to hash it out ourselves.

I’m hesitant to get into a progressive press as I am not really making bulk ammo other than 45-70. But I am interested in an Electronic powder dispenser as I have an opportunity to get one at a considerable discount.

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Charge master lite is a decent unit