Jim Watson
Member
Now - or at least the last time I looked - owned by General Dynamics.
As is IMR in Canada.
And Alliant by Vista.
M16 Vs M14
- Thread starter SmeeAgain
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Now - or at least the last time I looked - owned by General Dynamics.
As is IMR in Canada.
And Alliant by Vista.
General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems since 1998. St. Marks makes most or our military propellants. Surprisingly, we didn't get stupid enough to ship that offshore. I can't help but be slightly surprised that the Chinese don't make our powder.
Jim Watson
Member
For a while AA was importing commercial powder from China.
That's fine. We just need our military powder production here. We already goofed up the F35 which has circuit boards made by a UK company owned by the Chinese.
Coyote3855
Member
I trained with the M14 in basic training, 1969. I liked it enough to acquire an M1A. I also own an AR15. Each has its appropriate role and function.
You aren't missing anything. The three round burst was added to satisfy the bean counters. The burst cams actually make the trigger pull worse when compared to the A1 full auto trigger or a semi-auto only trigger. I'll take the A1 FA or a semi-auto trigger over the 3 round burst trigger. And yes I was trained on and issued both the M16A1 and M16A2.
That is what the M60 and M2 are for.
Speedo66
Member
That could have been my basic training company, circa 1967, at Ft. Ord in Monterey CA.
Same WWII era burn to the ground in 10 minutes wood barracks, too.
entropy
Member
You aren't missing anything. The three round burst was added to satisfy the bean counters. The burst cams actually make the trigger pull worse when compared to the A1 full auto trigger or a semi-auto only trigger. I'll take the A1 FA or a semi-auto trigger over the 3 round burst trigger. And yes I was trained on and issued both the M16A1 and M16A2.
That is what the M60 and M2 are for.
100% agree with both statements.
You aren't missing anything. The three round burst was added to satisfy the bean counters. The burst cams actually make the trigger pull worse when compared to the A1 full auto trigger or a semi-auto only trigger. I'll take the A1 FA or a semi-auto trigger over the 3 round burst trigger. And yes I was trained on and issued both the M16A1 and M16A2.
That is what the M60 and M2 are for.
Agreed. The M14 is so much easier to carry though.
Given how much time has passed, there are fewer and fewer Vietnam veterans and memories of that era are fading.
Some of those pictures are clearly the mountains to the west of El Paso, and of McGregor Range. A veteran remembered the barracks as being Fort Bliss. Those barracks don't exist anymore, the land they were on is no longer part of the base.
My neighbor's brother was the gentleman who went to Fort Bliss for basic and awarded this book The latest date in the book is 1966. The book says, essentially, that Fort Bliss’s training activities were reactivated 29 Nov 1965, the last basic training at Fort Bliss ended after the Korean War. “Since 13 Dec 1965, the USATC has started about 880 recruits and inductees through the eight week BCT program each week. Forty companies have been set up to handle this training load. The first BCT cycle graduated on 5 Feb 1966: and its men went for AIT and assignments with other units to Army posts through-out the nation.” It is probably that the pictures are of that first training class. My neighbor says his brother was in Vietnam during the 1968 TET Offensive, was a Captain at the time. His Brother died 1969, CONUS, in a motorcycle accident.
Roverguy
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I was shocked to find an article in The Atlantic about firearms that wasn’t about “gun crime”. I was amazed at the quality of the prose! Then I saw the date that the article was written and its tone made much more sense.
Thanks for posting this. It was a good read.
Thanks for posting this. It was a good read.
I shot a match grade 14 and it got to be a game to hit the spotting disc at 100 m............it was truly an EASY platform to use...........heavy, yup, but so was the Garand I went thu basic using...............and for pure out and out tough that Garand/14 platform is hard to beat!
Gaucho Gringo
Member
Interesting article. It isn't the first time something like this happened in the Army. Think Trapdoor Springfield rifle and copper cartridges getting stuck. A documented problem. Some theorize this happened at the Battle of Little Bighorn and contributed to the massacre. Ironically if they had been able to keep the Spencer repeating rifles they had just turned in to be reequipped with a single shot rifle they might of had a better chance of being alive after the battle. The law of unintended consequences is always a tricky one. I know a few people who didn't come home and few who came home damaged from Vietnam. I could never understand sending soldiers out with just good enough, inadequate or defective equipment, it should be the best when someone is putting their life on the line for you.
Zak Smith
Member
The only reason we don't get the exact powder they use to load now is that they get specific canister grades to meet the spec they need for the loads they are loading, while what we get is standardized into commercial products, the objective of which is to keep "H4895" (for example) the same lot to lot, decade over decade. The idea implied above that there is a conspiracy to keep us from getting a specific burn rate or type of powder is ridiculous considering the spectrum of powders that are available, especially if you consider the new powders that have come on the market in the last merely 10 years due to the new cartridges and/or popularity of cartridges.
The Glockodile
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A little off - topic, but I would think the closest analogy to what really happens is what goes on in the VA Hospitals.
Jim Watson
Member
I thought "canister grade" was what they put in one pound canisters to sell at the general store.
Zak Smith
Member
I think you're right. I always heard it referred to how I originally wrote but I think that was a mirror of what it should have been.
citizenconn
Member
Same for me with the A1 & A2. I much preferred the A1.You aren't missing anything. The three round burst was added to satisfy the bean counters. The burst cams actually make the trigger pull worse when compared to the A1 full auto trigger or a semi-auto only trigger. I'll take the A1 FA or a semi-auto trigger over the 3 round burst trigger. And yes I was trained on and issued both the M16A1 and M16A2.
entropy
Member
Except for the worse trigger caused by burst system, I preferred the A2. They were more accurate, especially after heating up. The pencil barrels of the A1 would open groups up when hot, and even cold reliability dropped off past 250 meters. 300 Meter Qual targets were a crapshoot.
Same course with the A2, I did headshots on all the targets, even the 300 meter. I kept all the 600 meter shots in a post match in the 9 on the scoring targets. Was nowhere near winning, though.
Same course with the A2, I did headshots on all the targets, even the 300 meter. I kept all the 600 meter shots in a post match in the 9 on the scoring targets. Was nowhere near winning, though.
tark
Member
Uhhhh.... I did the same thing at the same time..
tark
Member
![IMG_8367[1].JPG](/data/attachments/1026/1026889-ee2c4dca74301478286ae4d28f9e196f.jpg)
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