A question for the Old Guards in reloading.

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Mark_Mark said:
that’s why I use two and alternate between checks. if both fail and give the same fail reading, I’m going to buy some lottery tickets and buy everyone a Redding 10X
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Yeah two scales is a tough way to go, preference goes to familiarity with one good scale,I keep a small container of alcohol and Q tips in my box to clean the V grooves etc. durning a session I will occasionally place a check in the pan along with the charge weight of powder and simply do the math. Maybe one day when my ship comes in I’ll purchase a high end electric with the dispenser but for now I’m holding with this set up.
 

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KansasTrapper77 said:
Now you guys have me wondering about concentricity haha.
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See that arbor press and Wilson seater in the picture @South Prairie Jim put on your first page here? Spend the $175 for that set up, and don’t worry about concentricity ever again until you’re chasing benchrest records.

South Prairie Jim said:
two scales is a tough way to go
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SPJ’s on FIRE in this thread. “A man with a watch knows the time, a man with two is never sure.”
 
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The best part about the arbor press and Wilson dies is the concentricity, but a close second is the price (third is the tactile feel of seating pressure). Cheaper for the press and dies than most “match seating dies”.
 
Varminterror said:
This exchange bears repeating, especially for some of the “old guard” which are hard of hearing, or harder of accepting contrary evidence to their biases.
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Yup!!! I can show you a beautiful marlin in 44 mag with a VERY bulged chamber… sad proof of this…
 
Varminterror said:
See that arbor press and Wilson seater in the picture @South Prairie Jim put on your first page here? Spend the $175 for that set up, and don’t worry about concentricity ever again until you’re chasing benchrest records.
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Can't argue with that, and even as a fan of knowing my rounds are straight (or not), the new reloader has more important things to worry about.

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As a frequent higher volume handgun shooter, I'd recommend this to anybody as the best starting place:

#1 Dillon 550B (or whatever they call it now) and whatever comes in that kit. And the dies and caliber conversion kits of your choice.
#2 Primer Flip tray
#3 Standard powder scale w/ slide weights will do.

Just over a thousand bucks for the above mentioned items, not a big investment at all considering what you get and how long it lasts, and the quantity of loads that investment is capable of producing. To that point, a thousand bucks is nothing. Ill bet my 550B has paid for itself 10 times over or more.....but that's not even the best part, I love pulling on that lever.

The rest you probably already have in your garage toolbox.....

As you learn more and gain experience, you will learn to identify an increasing amount of minute problems for which there may be a solution for......by purchasing a new upgraded gadget.
It depends on personality type, as well. If you're a perfectionist or a leave-well-enough-alone personality type.

For Example:
I have a Redding performance seater die which can adjust by the thou....making precise OALs much easier to do. It has a sleeved seater stem with a precise seater stem shapes which seats certain bullets straighter.....Took me 5 years of loading to learn that what I was doing wasn't good enough if I wanted more precise, uniform ammunition. It took time to learn what I wanted. And now, I can't turn back to the factory seater die...I just can't!

I just suggest going about your business as normal, and only "fix" or upgrade if you are not satisfied with the results. This all comes with time. Post highly specific questions, and you will get highly specific answers here on THR.
 
Varminterror said:
See that arbor press and Wilson seater in the picture @South Prairie Jim put on your first page here? Spend the $175 for that set up, and don’t worry about concentricity ever again until you’re chasing benchrest records.



SPJ’s on FIRE in this thread. “A man with a watch knows the time, a man with two is never sure.”
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Seems I mentioned concentricity checks for older brass to see if neck tension was even and for sized brass as a way of checking spring back. Never thought it would be taken to such convoluted paths. Never mind. Knowledgeable gained from experience is meaningless compared to shouts and insults. I am deaf (partially) but it doesn’t make me stupid. Refusing to pay attention because a huge chip is blocking your ears… well that’s another matter.
Necks split and there’s a few ways to predict them. Brass gets work hardened and there’s tell tales there too. But, never mind.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Seems I mentioned concentricity checks for older brass to see if neck tension was even and for sized brass as a way of checking spring back. Never thought it would be taken to such convoluted paths. Never mind. Knowledgeable gained from experience is meaningless compared to shouts and insults. I am deaf (partially) but it doesn’t make me stupid. Refusing to pay attention because a huge chip is blocking your ears… well that’s another matter.
Necks split and there’s a few ways to predict them. Brass gets work hardened and there’s tell tales there too. But, never mind.
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Are you trying to suggest that Wilson seaters cause neck splits? Or that eccentricity causes neck splits? Shouts and insults? I’m not following your claims here.
 
Varminterror said:
Are you trying to suggest that Wilson seaters cause neck splits? Or that eccentricity causes neck splits? Shouts and insults? I’m not following your claims here.
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No, but it’s okay. Nothing to see. Moving along.
Oh, and for the OP, be careful of over lubricating those.303 cases. It’s a tapered base.
 
KansasTrapper77 said:
Now you guys have me wondering about concentricity haha.
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There was a discussion regarding concentricity a while back and on a different forum between a couple very knowledgeable gent’s that summarized something like this; A modern chamber whether custom or not will not have enough clearance at the body and throat to allow a round to not self align / correct itself to within a couple thousandths when chambered. -This sounds reasonable to me..

Personally I have never seen much difference on paper maybe now I know why.
Added- This doesn’t mean I don’t care about straight ammunition rather I just use good tools and don’t obsess over concentricity.
 
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Before everybody gets angry and Walkalong decides to shut down this thread, I'll share the first shock I experienced back 50 years ago when I bought my first Rock Chucker. Brass isn't perfect, powder isn't perfect, primers aren't perfect, bullets aren't perfect, and not one tool used in Reloading is perfect, and I'm not perfect either. Yet I expected perfect ammo, perfect measurements, perfect powder drops. ;) Wasn't long I realized that there was room for some error and the ammo was still usually better than most factory, in spite of it.

I used an RCBS 10-10 for most of that time......learned to keep it covered and clean. But yet I'd heard of the idea that it was wise to check it with another, so I bought a Gem-Pro Electronic. Now that about drove me to drink.....until I realized that all the variation it measured was two decimal places. yeah! 100ths of a grain. Don't need two decimal places. But I don't use it much any more, the 10-10 is easier IMO, and plenty accurate.

RCBS offered to "give" me one of their new black electronic tricklers for some "free" help I gave them on their website. I declined. Would have been wasted on an old fart like me, happy enough with my Uniflows. Should have taken it and given it to Walkalong.....for all he's done keeping this forum entertaining and civil. Next time they offer me something, I'll do that.
 
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Hooda Thunkit said:
I understand. I was a professional wrench - automobile heavy line - for years.

Sometimes one needs a special tool, or a tool that is only made by one company. I've still got some specialty tools that I've used once, and probably never will again.

As for the toolbox running from Harbor Freight to Snap-on, well...have you been peeking in my toolbox?
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Hah! I buy some stuff from Horrible Fraught but hey, it is what it is. I needed 4' of 3/8" extension to remove a 4wd unit from my Trailblazer. HF was a godsend. I bought 6' just because I could, lol.

I had to explain something to my son one time about buying tools. I was a carpenter by trade for quite a few years, and swung a 24 oz California style framer. My elbow and shoulder on my right arm is pretty much shot now. So a few years back I bought a Martinez framer for a bunch of money even though Im not in that trade anymore but I still do some weekend warrior stuff. My kid asked me why I spent $290 on a framing hammer when my old framer works just fine still? I told him because if I would have known back then what I know now my elbow and shoulder would still be in great condition because I was using the right tool. Same thing with a set of 6 point S&K wrenches I bought (metric and standard), even though I have a perfectly serviceable set of US made Craftsman 12 points. I told him what happens if I am working on something I absolutely only have a single chance to fix it correctly and if I break/round/screw up something because I used a cheap tool, does the cheapness of the tool offset the cost and time to have to fix it the hard way?

Approaching reloading tools with the same mind set can be a good way of looking at it. The 3/8 extensions from HF are an example of a tool that is good enough. But sometimes you get into that situation where that high dollar set of SK, SnapOn, Mac wrenches is the only way to be sure.
 
GW Staar said:
Before everybody gets angry and Walkalong decides to shut down this thread, I'll share the first shock I experienced back 50 years ago when I bought my first Rock Chucker. Brass isn't perfect, powder isn't perfect, primers aren't perfect, bullets aren't perfect, and not one tool used in Reloading is perfect, and I'm not perfect either. Yet I expected perfect ammo, perfect measurements, perfect powder drops. ;) Wasn't long I realized that there was room for some error and the ammo was still usually better than most factory, in spite of it.

I used an RCBS 10-10 for most of that time......learned to keep it covered and clean. But yet I'd heard of the idea that it was wise to check it with another, so I bought a Gem-Pro Electronic. Now that about drove me to drink.....until I realized that all the variation it measured was two decimal places. yeah! 100ths of a grain. Don't need two decimal places. But I don't use it much any more, the 10-10 is easier IMO, and plenty accurate.

RCBS offered to "give" me one of their new black tricklers for some "free" help I gave them on their website. I declined. Would have been wasted on an old fart like me, happy enough with my Uniflows. Should have taken it and given it to Walkalong.....for all he's done keeping this forum entertaining and civil. Next time they offer me something, I'll do that.
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I been using the Uniflow for 7 years now… and I trust it. the throw has a solid clunk, the adjustment stem is stiff but smooth. if I find one on sale… SOLD!
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Those are the dial calipers I use for all of my reloading work. Do you recognize them? Midway USA. I got them on sale. Free shipping, too.
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Can't say I recognize them.

Mine say 'Anytime Tools' where yours say 'National Metallic'. The rest of the dial is identical. They have served me well over the years. :thumbup:

I’m one of those folks you assume will insist a set of $400 calipers is “essential”

:rofl: Truthfully, I'm not exactly sure what to think of someone who's been known to fight off bugs while reloading outside on a press mounted to a barstool, much less have any kind of pre-conceived notion regarding what type of tools he uses.

Different strokes for different folks!
 
KansasTrapper77 said:
The electronic scale I’m looking at is made in Taiwan. So at least its not Chinese crap. And it’s not like I’m going to throw the 505 away. I’ll just have two scales. I like comparing.
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The scale I used for the video in #57 is a 505, that setup is more consistent than the CM1500 and cheaper. I will admit to having very cheap electronic scales (very expensive ones too) but if I had to grab one to trust on my way out the door it would be a beam scale.
 
Skgreen said:
Can't say I recognize them.

Mine say 'Anytime Tools' where yours say 'National Metallic'. The rest of the dial is identical. They have served me well over the years. :thumbup:

I’m one of those folks you assume will insist a set of $400 calipers is “essential”

:rofl: Truthfully, I'm not exactly sure what to think of someone who's been known to fight off bugs while reloading outside on a press mounted to a barstool, much less have any kind of pre-conceived notion regarding what type of tools he uses.

Different strokes for different folks!
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Well, I would think your first thought would be, “Gee, I guess I was wrong about machinists being all up in peoples faces insisting they buy the most expensive tools made,” but maybe admitting you are wrong is just a bridge too far.
 
My office, houses all of my equipment for reloading and gun cleaning. Spending 31 years in a chemical laboratory and having OCD keeps my area safe and clean. I try to make things low maintenance, notice powder chargers for each different powder. You only have to change the weight charged.

RL1.JPG RL2.JPG RL3.JPG RL4.JPG
 
I have good calipers I bought used a long time ago. I use dial because they are cheaper... I just bought a set of I gauging digital to measure targets with. I measure the holes on the outside and can zero on bullet diameter and save a lot of math time. It's no better but these are a tool to play around with.
 
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