Are Negligent Discharges Inevitable?

It's going to happen eventually if you carry a gun in such a manner that all you or something else has to do is pull that trigger.

It's human nature to get complacent when something becomes a habit or regular. When something happens to interrupt a routine, sometimes a step or procedure gets forgotten or missed. Kinda the reasoning behind always keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Similar to the mantra when riding motorcycle. Ain't A question of if you are ever gonna lay 'er down, but when. While many of us will make it through our firearm career without a ND, odds are, we've all have had at least one, if not more, "OH S$%&".

I've never had one so... Maybe?

I will say I had a close call when I was real young, though.

I've discharged an extra round on accident in between targets during a course of fire at a match once.

Night Rider said:

Someone on another forum had a negligent discharge.

Another poster commented
"Handle a gun long enough and something like this is going to happen."

I don't think that's a good attitude. I don't think that's a good way to look at things. I think it sets you up for failure.

Click to expand...

I don't think that poster takes that as a position or attitude, but its an observation. The more opportunities one has to handle a firearm, the more opportunities one has to do something that may result in a negligent act. THATS THE REASON to stay in the moment and not become complacent about safety.

Do you really think that it's inevitable that everybody's going to have negligent discharge at some point in their life?

Click to expand...

No.
"Familiarity breeds contempt". While not an exact comparison, it's close. A woodworker using a table saw eight hours a day, likely has a healthy respect for safety and knows that a single mistake could cost him a finger or two. BUT...........does he always use a push block or stick? Or through his years of experience does he think he can freehand that board and safely keep his fingers where they should be?

Negligent discharges occur despite trained people being trained in safe handling practices. You would think a simple visual inspection is all thats required, but many PD's have these:

I worked and was around the manufacturing industry and had a few chances to observe and study end results as robots began to replace people.

Fact is, robots rarely make mistakes. They make mistakes by orders of magnitude less than humans. So yes, I look at it from the perspective of the more times you handle a firearm, the more likely you are to make a mistake.

Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction always. All the other rules stack upon this one. Keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction does not stop an ND but keeps it from causing injury. That one rule presumes an ND is bound to happen sometime. It is not fatalistic. It is just reality.

Keep in mind the differences between the "Ideal World" and the "Real World."

In the ideal world, everyone would always employ the required level of caution to prevent accidental discharges of a manual operation cause.

In the ideal world. there would never be a mechanical failure that produce an accidental discharge of a mechanical cause.

There ain't no "Ideal World." We live in the real world. No matter how great the effort made, some folks are going to fall short of the perfection standard and that will result in some accidental discharges.

That's not an excuse, or a reason that we should be accepting of any rate of such discharges, that fact should really cause us to "double-down" on safety efforts.

One "Pet Peeve" of mind is the belief, held by some, that all "Accidental Discharges" are synonymous with "Negligent Discharges." From a numbers standpoint, that's very close to being true. I worked for an LE agency of 10,000 sworn, and we had several AD's each year, and the lessons learned were briefed to all. I probably read of about 400 or so over my 31 years with that agency. Of those, probably 390 involved some amount of negligence. But more importantly, the labeling of an act as "Negligent" requires the accuser to have some body of evidence to make such an assessment. The sound of a "Bang" just doesn't meet that standard.

I had one when loading 45's for my 1911. I has checking slide close. And pulled the trigger by error. The bullet is still in my wall. Im lucky it didn't hit me. Or go through the floor and hit someone down stairs.

In my 80's, name it and I have likely shot it or something very close to it. My conclusion is simply that it's not a matter of 'if', but 'when'! You cannot show me a carpenter that hasn't hit his thumb, for that matter a morse code operator that failed to drop/or insert an important dit or dah............all one can do is try one;s best. To my mind, having been a competitive shooter/LEO/hunter and in the military is to always try to remember and make a habit of the first rule...........KNOW where the damn thing's pointed........ALWAYS!

Anyone that tells me that he or she has never had that glitch is either a liar or awaiting the experience!

Shot a hole in my parents open beam roof with my ruger 3 screw .22 mag when i was oh 15 years young.
Was wiping it down, sure i emptied all the rounds out of the cylinder. Had it cocked, pointed up wiped the trigger down and BANG!.
Got a little powder burn on the face.
All it takes is once. I was lucky my parents didn't find me dead on the floor.

Individually, no it's not inevitable.

Statistically, across any poulpulation, yes it is inevitable.

And that's why the Four Rules overlap.

edwardware said:

Individually, no it's not inevitable.

Statistically, across any poulpulation, yes it is inevitable.

And that's why the Four Rules overlap.

Click to expand...

Just another reminder about the 4 rules.

Well I guess I should hurry up and have one then, before I'm dead.

Of course it is. Look left... see that guy? That's my happy face.

True story:

Some years ago I bought a case of 12 ga. shells at Dick's. (This was before Dick's went insane.) They were Federal brand, and Federal is a good brand. Funny thing... they were a kind of purple-ish color... supposed to be pink I learned, in support of breast cancer research apparently. Now I don't mind supporting research into breast cancer, although I'd support it more if there was a comparable interest in prostate cancer, but that's a digression. Anyhoo...

I came home from shooting my usual 19 at the trap range and before putting the gun up for next week, I inserted the A-Zoom snap cap. I know, leaving the hammer spring cocked for a week won't harm it, but I just hate leaving springs compressed. So I chambered the snap cap and pulled the trigger. You know what happened.

After cleaning up the mess, I investigated. The A-Zoom thingy is purple-ish. These Federal "breast cancer" shells were purple-ish. The only real difference was that the live shells had a brass base, which I didn't notice.

So that's my story, and I'm sticking with it. I still buy Federals when I can't find cheapo Winchesters at Walmart, but by d*mn I'm through with breast cancer.

rust collector said:

Unintentional discharges do happen. If we have done our part, the failure is not catastrophic.

Click to expand...

I wish we would use the term "unintentional" to describe this more. Seems folks get more upset over the proper A or N prefix. To me, everyone is an accident and every one is a product of negligence.

I'd like to say I'm one of those perfect people who's never had an incident. But I'm human and I have had some learning experiences. I've been been handling guns since I was 6, hunting and shooting un-supervised since age 7. I'm 51 now and I've had three "accidental" discharges in my life, two were in my younger years and one recently:
One of these was a definite ND. I was about 13yrs old, was cutting wood with my grandad's High Standard .22 pistol in a full length leather holster. I pulled it out and fired about 4rds to kill a Copperhead and put it back in the holster. When I got back to the tractor I was using, I pulled the gun out of the holster to replace the spent ammo and it went off. The safety was a little loose and, either from my error or from jostling around while cutting wood, the safety was off and my finger hit the trigger as I un-holstered it. The round gouged the end of the holster a bit and went in the dirt a few feet away. I had been tought well to keep my finger off the trigger, just didn't do it this time. This did heighten my attention from then on to be sure about my finger placement.

The second time was about 15yrs ago. I had just emptied a mag in my new M&P 9mm, put a new mag in, racked the slide and it slipped out of my hand. I don't know if my trigger finger moved from the from the unexpected motion when the slide slipped out of my hand or what happened. My finger was definetly not on the trigger when I grabbed the slide, but the gun fired when the slide closed. It was very hot that day and my hands were sweaty, so I think my finger or thumb brushed the trigger, but without video, I'm not 100% sure. The gun was pointed in a safe direction, so that habit payed off. So yet again, this caused me to double down on taking my time and being aware of where my booger pickers are when handling a gun

The most recent incident was a total accident due to a defective trigger and I posted about it here:
I was sighting in my friend's Rem 700 , 22-250.
I had just loaded it, safety was on, when I closed the bolt, it went off just as the bolt rotated, bolt handle still securely in my hand right hand and forearm securely in my left hand.
Again, having it pointed in a safe direction payed off.
It had one of the defective triggers that had been recalled by Remington, but he never knew and didn't get it sent back. I didn't let him have the gun back until we replaced the trigger. I destroyed the defective trigger after taking pics of the problem area in sear/trigger engagement.

I'm sure some of the perfect people here will have some comments about this. But that's fine, I've learned from my mistakes and will continue to. Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes also, but here are a couple notes that I hope are retained by readers:

In all three of my mishaps, having the muzzle pointed a safe direction minimized the outcome.

Two of my incidents were from complacency with my handling of the weapon. This must be practiced just like every other aspect of shooting. Everything becomes habit with enough practice, but these safe handling habits must also be mentally brought back to the front of your thoughts every time you handle a gun.
I used to have a picture posted of a man who blew his hand to bits while cleaning his gun. It got misplaced the last time I reorganized my gun room, I need to find it and put it back up.

I have had two ND. Both about 18-19 yo. First I was walking with my 22 golden boy. I was holding it skyward and was fidgeting with the hammer. Had a round in the chamber. The hammer slipped past the safety notch and fired. I don’t fidget with the hammer of a lever gun or any gun now.

The next was with an ak47 sar1 had a jam, cleared it, I was pointed more towards the neighbors than safely down range. Pulled the trigger for some reason upon clearing the jam. I’m now much more aware of my muzzle and if I have a jam in a gun I generally drop the mag now.

Do I think it’s inevitable? No. I think that anyone that isn’t given proper safety training will. When I had those two, I had only read the nra pamphlet that comes with a gun. It hadn’t sunk in yet. I got more serious about as as time progressed and have gotten more safe, now, considering what’s through the wall in the direction of my muzzle.

That said I do not support mandatory safety training. Rather, I support free local community based shooting programs to teach all about safe firearms handling.

Had mine at 17 with a winchester 94. Hammer slipped decocking it. As taught I had the rifle pointed in a safe direction. Embarrassing as hell.

I've never had one in 4+ decades of gun handling, and I'm not sure they are inevitable. Probably for some. Maintain your weapons with reasonable care and strictly adhere to the Four Rules and the probability goes so low as to be virtually non-existent.

Night Rider said:

Another poster commented
"Handle a gun long enough and something like this is going to happen."

Click to expand...

I agree with this sentiment in principle, in practice the goal is to habituate safe handling rules so well that your rate of negligent discharges becomes less than one per lifetime.

I've had two accidental discharges in my time shooting guns.

One with a Ruger 10/22 several decades ago. The gun was pointed down range and I was fighting a jam. Stupid me pulled on the trigger when the bolt finally closed. Even though the barrel was pointed in the general direction of what I was shooting at, I was not looking through the sights when I fired the gun.

Same situation happened with an air rifle a few years prior to that. I'd like to think I've learned from those incidents.

Not inevitable, but possible. That's why a gun should always be pointed in a safe direction.