Expansion Industries Primers

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No sir, it's all good

They (PSA) quoted $100 million invested a couple of times in posts on another forum (as well as photos and videos of their new construction/operation) even going as far as treating an unsatisfied customer to an all expenses paid trip to their new facility to see, photograph and test their products directly off the production line.

That's why I felt comfortable repeating it.
 
No sir, it's all good

They (PSA) quoted $100 million invested a couple of times in posts on another forum (as well as photos and videos of their new construction/operation) even going as far as treating an unsatisfied customer to an all expenses paid trip to their new facility to see, photograph and test their products directly off the production line.

That's why I felt comfortable repeating it.
That’s a lot of dough, though.
 
That’s a lot of dough, though.

Sure is!

Heck, even if it was half that. It's still a lot considering they're not even at their goal!

I just hope that if/when their primers are available that they're still not $80/1000!
 
PSA is the real deal. They are a BALLSY company, and put their money where their mouth is. The guns they manufacture and sell are far better than their price point. All of my ARs have come from there, and all work fantastic. They also have good deals on ammo. Since the beginning, they have stated that their primary purpose it to put high quality affordable guns in people's hands... and that's exactly what they have done. I have zero doubt they are wanting to expand into ammunition. Most of their business is mail order, and they send stuff all over the place. Really good deals and reasonable prices.
 
No sir, it's all good

They (PSA) quoted $100 million invested a couple of times in posts on another forum (as well as photos and videos of their new construction/operation) even going as far as treating an unsatisfied customer to an all expenses paid trip to their new facility to see, photograph and test their products directly off the production line.

That's why I felt comfortable repeating it.

PSA is very active on AR15 forum.
I followed the threaded where the CEO put his money where his mouth is and paid for the guy to tour the plant and try some bullets right off the machine.
Name one other such company that has done such a thing.
If I remember correctly, their plans were to have the ammo plant fully operational by 2023.
Starting off with steel cased, boxer primed 762x39.
 
Right now, PSA has a few versions of brass 9mm for $0.30/rd... which isn't much more expensive than you can reload it for.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/9mm-ammo.html

12ga... $0.44/rd for field, $0.52/rd buckshot, $0.60/rd slugs.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/ammo/shotgun-ammo.html?product_list_order=unit_price_asc

Sometimes, they will have 'Daily Deals' which are screaming good buys. I bought a couple Rock Island 12ga 18.5" pump shotguns for $140 each. Add tax and shipping and FFL, and I was $200 deep for each. Fine for blasting stuff with cheap 00 buck and slugs. lol Definitely not going to lose value. More than that now, but they go on sale from time to time. Also can be had with a 28" barrel.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/roc...mp-action-12-gauge-shotgun-black-pa12h18.html

Check out this AR10 on a Daily Deal! If I didn't have other things draining my funds... lol
https://palmettostatearmory.com/ble...steel-15-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle.html

Point is, PSA practices what they preach... and their own brand of guns performs well above their price point. If I were to believe ANYONE who said they were going to produce ammo/primers, it would be them.
 
Right now, PSA has a few versions of brass 9mm for $0.30/rd... which isn't much more expensive than you can reload it for.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/9mm-ammo.html

12ga... $0.44/rd for field, $0.52/rd buckshot, $0.60/rd slugs.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/ammo/shotgun-ammo.html?product_list_order=unit_price_asc

Sometimes, they will have 'Daily Deals' which are screaming good buys. I bought a couple Rock Island 12ga 18.5" pump shotguns for $140 each. Add tax and shipping and FFL, and I was $200 deep for each. Fine for blasting stuff with cheap 00 buck and slugs. lol Definitely not going to lose value. More than that now, but they go on sale from time to time. Also can be had with a 28" barrel.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/roc...mp-action-12-gauge-shotgun-black-pa12h18.html

Check out this AR10 on a Daily Deal! If I didn't have other things draining my funds... lol
https://palmettostatearmory.com/ble...steel-15-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle.html

Point is, PSA practices what they preach... and their own brand of guns performs well above their price point. If I were to believe ANYONE who said they were going to produce ammo/primers, it would be them.
No one has said PSA isn’t good or legit or whatever. As for me only, I simply don’t believe they have or are prepared to invest $100M.
 
Copied from the CEO of psa.


FYI, the longer you wait the more you will see. There are machines rolling in every few weeks. If you wait about 6 weeks you should be able to see 55gr loaded rounds rolling off of the line and 77gr OTM rounds rolling off of the line in around 8 weeks (times subject to change based on equipment delays). In June we will have 125gr OTM and 220gr OTM 300BO being made. The primer plant is also beginning construction and the longer you wait the further along that will be. I think you will be intrigued by all of it.

Also, for those stating there is some sort of learning curve, this isn’t being done by us. It is being contracted by a major industrial group that sets up ammo factories. They set up several military factories in Europe and many of the factories in recent decades in the US. Each member of management was brought in from outside with decades of experience running large ammo factories and the employees are trained at other facilities, certified and then come back to us to begin employment.

After the tour you will understand the scope of what we are doing. We have spent over $100,000,000 on this project so far.
 
The $100 million figure came from the estimated amount of money the *government* invested in the depot over the years. The actual company hasn’t invested hardly anything, but they received a few million from the Paycheck Protection Program, thus the going-thru-the-motions “hiring event”. I did some research on the guy and his sons behind the smoke and mirrors and he has a history of shady ventures.
(Edit - I’m referring to the Expansion Ind deal not PSA. PSA is a legit company)
 
Copied from the CEO of psa.


FYI, the longer you wait the more you will see. There are machines rolling in every few weeks. If you wait about 6 weeks you should be able to see 55gr loaded rounds rolling off of the line and 77gr OTM rounds rolling off of the line in around 8 weeks (times subject to change based on equipment delays). In June we will have 125gr OTM and 220gr OTM 300BO being made. The primer plant is also beginning construction and the longer you wait the further along that will be. I think you will be intrigued by all of it.

Also, for those stating there is some sort of learning curve, this isn’t being done by us. It is being contracted by a major industrial group that sets up ammo factories. They set up several military factories in Europe and many of the factories in recent decades in the US. Each member of management was brought in from outside with decades of experience running large ammo factories and the employees are trained at other facilities, certified and then come back to us to begin employment.

After the tour you will understand the scope of what we are doing. We have spent over $100,000,000 on this project so far.
We’ll see. Wonder why they stopped at $65M for the Remington bid?
 
I think our only hope is to import vast quantities of primers, and since that hasn't happened yet, I figure there must be a political reason it hasn't happened.
Are you not seeing the influx of European primers hitting the market?

The first ones I tried were Ginex from Bosnia. Excellent SPP, but they are only sold in boxes of 5k...their price covered shipping and HazMat. I got them from a company in TX and their first shipment was 500k. I think they've resupplied twice since and the price has fallen continued to fall
 
If I recall, isn't Palmetto State's expansion into primers for their own ammo manufacturing operations only, not public sale as a shelf commodity? I seem to remember them being real involved with Law Enforcement contracts and wanting to do more of that side of the business.
 
The $100 million figure came from the estimated amount of money the *government* invested in the depot over the years. The actual company hasn’t invested hardly anything, but they received a few million from the Paycheck Protection Program, thus the going-thru-the-motions “hiring event”. I did some research on the guy and his sons behind the smoke and mirrors and he has a history of shady ventures.
(Edit - I’m referring to the Expansion Ind deal not PSA. PSA is a legit company)
The first report I saw on Expansion Industries primer plant said they had invested $100 million so far. I believe the owner was quoted as saying that, if I recall correctly. Later reports said they "planned to" invest $100 million. I wish them all the luck in the world, but I'll believe it when I see their primers on the shelves.
 
I just hope that if/when their primers are available that they're still not $80/1000!

I bet they hope your wrong. That was the problem with the AR lower guys, they came for the money, market got saturated, folks started selling them for $30 or less and that didn’t cover overhead for the little guys.
 
I bet they hope your wrong. That was the problem with the AR lower guys, they came for the money, market got saturated, folks started selling them for $30 or less and that didn’t cover overhead for the little guys.

Yeah, I'll bet your right that they hope I'm wrong.

Seriously, as long as there's no funny business at play or these primers aren't pure junk the market is going to/supposed to dictate price.

On a personal level (and I didn't feel it had any relevance to the OP's topic so I felt no need to bring it up lest I be labeled a "braggart" or worse), I have xx's of thousands of primers, (many I paid for $13-$20/1000 for so, @CQB45ACP, I can't truthfully or honestly "play" your game of "if you didn't know how much they used to cost, would the higher cost bother you?" because I do :thumbup:, but, I understand what you're saying, especially for folks new to all this BS) as well as buckets of primed brass as well as enough loaded ammo it started to crack my concrete floor.

I just wanted to participate in a thread about primers and how hard it would be to get primers on the market soley through the opening of a new plant.

I agree with other posters that the easiest, quickest and (in the short term only) the best way would be to import.

The folks pulling the strings of the current administration could be counted on to do whatever they can to make that difficult at best if not impossible and, who knows, given the almost complete lack of foreign policy, we might be at odds politically with country "X" in 6 months anyway so imports would be off the table.
That's why domestic production is (in the long term) truly the best option.
 
Yeah, I'll bet your right that they hope I'm wrong.

Seriously, as long as there's no funny business at play or these primers aren't pure junk the market is going to/supposed to dictate price.

On a personal level (and I didn't feel it had any relevance to the OP's topic so I felt no need to bring it up lest I be labeled a "braggart" or worse), I have xx's of thousands of primers, (many I paid for $13-$20/1000 for so, @CQB45ACP, I can't truthfully or honestly "play" your game of "if you didn't know how much they used to cost, would the higher cost bother you?" because I do :thumbup:, but, I understand what you're saying, especially for folks new to all this BS) as well as buckets of primed brass as well as enough loaded ammo it started to crack my concrete floor.

I just wanted to participate in a thread about primers and how hard it would be to get primers on the market soley through the opening of a new plant.

I agree with other posters that the easiest, quickest and (in the short term only) the best way would be to import.

The folks pulling the strings of the current administration could be counted on to do whatever they can to make that difficult at best if not impossible and, who knows, given the almost complete lack of foreign policy, we might be at odds politically with country "X" in 6 months anyway so imports would be off the table.
That's why domestic production is (in the long term) truly the best option.
I understand and it is a game of sorts. Buying stocks it could be called dollar cost averaging—what’s the average cost paid per share over multiple purchases?

But my favorite is one I heard Warren Buffet (not Jimmy) say one time about buyout negotiations. Something like: view all counteroffers as though they were initial offers. If you would’ve been interested as an initial, why reject as a counter? Pride?

Most every purchase decision can be processed this way including primers—if you need primers and they ARE $80/1000, what difference does it make if they WERE $30?
 
I understand and it is a game of sorts. Buying stocks it could be called dollar cost averaging—what’s the average cost paid per share over multiple purchases?

But my favorite is one I heard Warren Buffet (not Jimmy) say one time about buyout negotiations. Something like: view all counteroffers as though they were initial offers. If you would’ve been interested as an initial, why reject as a counter? Pride?

Most every purchase decision can be processed this way including primers—if you need primers and they ARE $80/1000, what difference does it make if they WERE $30?
That makes perfect sense. Then factor in needs vs wants and affordability and you have a formula for buying power. I need food; I want beef tenderloin; I can afford hamburger. Guess we’re having chili for dinner. ;)
 
I visited a small private ammo manufacturer (06 FFL) in North Carolina on Saturday. I was returning from vacation in Mrytle Beach and he'd responded to a query I posted on FB looking for Large Pistol Primers. He offered me some of his stash of Federal and I jumped on it and picked up 5 bricks. We had a discussion about Expansion Industries, as I'd mentioned it in a text. He informed me that he and another small ammo company (these guys are local only, operating out of a trailer dedicated to his craft) invested $50K last year to ensure access to a steady supply of primers. He (and his investment partner) was just invtited down to tour the factory, now that it's in production (for 3 weeks now), and is expecting his first shipment in the next couple of weeks. By mid-September he expects to have a steady stream of 500,000 primers per month. The only people that will see Expansion Industries primers for a while are pre-invested ammunition manufacturers as the entire 1st year's production is sold out.
What really surprised me was to see the stash of production supplies this guy had...and his willingness to sell me anything I wanted. MY 5 bricks made a small dent in his LPP supply. Had I brought more cash I would've grabbed a couple of the 8lb jugs of powder he offered to sell me.
 
Hopefully not Turkey chili though
This is where regionality comes into play: because I live in "beef country" ground beef is cheaper at my local grocer than ground turkey. Ground turkey is in lower demand, there are fewer turkey farms than cattle farms, there are more chicken farms but because the export of chickens pays better than the export of cows, ground chicken is also more expensive then ground beef. Applying that to reloading components is why powder, primers and bullets are harder to find and more expensive when found where I live than as reported by a plurality of other posters. Here's the kicker: while "cheap cuts" of beef around here are in the $3-$5/pound range, the more desirable cuts - filet, sirloin, flat iron, strip/eye/loin, even chuck roast - are in the $10-$12/pound range because the market for those cuts outside this area is paying better. Similarly, pork butts are cheap; pork loins are pricey. The locals export the choice parts for as much as they can get and leave the stuff "city folk" don't know about or don't want to us locals. Same for ammo - can't find .30-30, .357Magnum or .38Spl for under a buck-a-shot but 45¢/shot .40S&W and .22LR are already back on the shelves in abundance. Why is .40S&W the same price-point as .22LR? Beats me. Demand, maybe? I know there's folks out there already seeing 55¢ primers and $29/pound powders locally but not here. Regionality, just like gas, housing and food.
 
I visited a small private ammo manufacturer (06 FFL) in North Carolina on Saturday. I was returning from vacation in Mrytle Beach and he'd responded to a query I posted on FB looking for Large Pistol Primers. He offered me some of his stash of Federal and I jumped on it and picked up 5 bricks. We had a discussion about Expansion Industries, as I'd mentioned it in a text. He informed me that he and another small ammo company (these guys are local only, operating out of a trailer dedicated to his craft) invested $50K last year to ensure access to a steady supply of primers. He (and his investment partner) was just invtited down to tour the factory, now that it's in production (for 3 weeks now), and is expecting his first shipment in the next couple of weeks. By mid-September he expects to have a steady stream of 500,000 primers per month. The only people that will see Expansion Industries primers for a while are pre-invested ammunition manufacturers as the entire 1st year's production is sold out.
What really surprised me was to see the stash of production supplies this guy had...and his willingness to sell me anything I wanted. MY 5 bricks made a small dent in his LPP supply. Had I brought more cash I would've grabbed a couple of the 8lb jugs of powder he offered to sell me.
Hold on…you’re saying they are actually manufacturing primers in their plant In Texas? That plant wasn’t even finished the last we heard here on this forum just last week. So making primers not selling imported ones?

I find it extraordinarily hard to believe and will look into it further. Will call the local newspaper & BBB to see what’s what. I’m not at all intending to cast aspersions on any messengers.
 
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