Holster for bear country

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I’m in the chest holster group, I used one in AK quite a bit, easier to have for waders, or a parka and coveralls, or hip pack and back pack, or while fishing or whatever.

Mine was the “chesty puller” with a Simply Rugged Cuda, but I wish I had one of those Kenai ones, those look wonderful.

I might need to think on one for my deer hunting setup.

I was going to add that to my post but you beat me to it. I also like the chest holster when rafting. A belt holster gets caught on everything in raft, the gun get really wet, and is hard to draw. It is also nice to throw on top of layer and not get buried under jackets or parkas.
 
I was going to add that to my post but you beat me to it. I also like the chest holster when rafting. A belt holster gets caught on everything in raft, the gun get really wet, and is hard to draw. It is also nice to throw on top of layer and not get buried under jackets or parkas.

Yeah, I really preferred the chest rig on the snowmachine in winter (though then it was wolves at worst to worry about) under the parka and over the coveralls, reasonably easy to reach when needed but protected from the cold.

Was nice fishing too with or without waders since I had enough going on around my waist with packs or gear, one less thing and my Redhawk wasn’t exactly a small gun.
 
I like the cheap M3 “tanker” holsters, I’ve got one for my 10mm 1911 and another that I cased and stretched/formed for my EAA poly Witness 10mm.
Only setup I’ve found that I can wear comfortably and functionally with my bino harness and my pack on.
9-15rds of 200gr WFN hard cast on tap, in platforms that I shoot confidently.
I’ve not been attacked by a bear, but I’m pretty sure that for me, getting rounds quickly and accurately trump a hand cannon I can’t shoot well.
I ran a 44mag Redhawk for long enough to jack my elbow up, and switched to a 10mm after timing how quickly I could accurate fire on target, after running a distance then drawing and firing.
 
Another vote for the Kenai chest rig I carry my Glock 20 in it when I cross the Mississippi.I carried it with a backpack and a FHF binocular chest rig. I was able to adjust the holster so that I could easily get a firing grip. And from my practice it's much quicker than a belt holster with my pack on. I am also in the camp of rounds on target matter most That's why I went with my Glock 20 over my 5" 629. I love my revolvers but I just have more trigger time with the Glock platform.
 
What I’ve learned living in Bear country..IF a Bear is pistol close and aggressive you most likely won’t have time to use the sights or the light, better to have a bright headlamp and a quick draw.

If the light is turned on during the draw, no appreciable time is lost. I practice it almost daily. I agree about the red dot though. They're not a great idea in the wilderness in general, imo.
 
@beeb173 thank you for starting the thread.
And to everyone that has shared holster types. I would like to try a chest rig with my Osprey Stratos 34 backpack. It has a good waist belt and chest strap for the shoulder straps.
I'm afraid that a leg holster would be uncomfortable with shorts.
I like the Hill People Gear Recon Pack as it keeps the gun concealed. The gunfighter looks a little quicker to draw and in the more remote ares I'm not concerned with the fire arm being concealed.

Thanks again for sharing.
 
What I’ve learned living in Bear country..IF a Bear is pistol close and aggressive you most likely won’t have time to use the sights or the light, better to have a bright headlamp and a quick draw.

A bright headlamp is a great tool. And an efficient draw stroke and sight acquisition is also a big plus, which will only come from practice.

Neither a weapon light nor a red dot would cause a draw to be slower if the shooter spent time practicing. If red dot sights were slower than iron sights, you would never see one on a competition handgun.

I’ve lived in both Interior Alaska 30 miles east of Fairbanks and in Great Falls, Montana, both over 5 years each. But I’ve learned WAY more about bear attacks from the many well researched and written articles on Ammoland by Dean Weingarten.

Here is an amazing account of a young man with a firearm in condition 3 and the sow grizzly attack:

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/02/sh...th-40-against-sow-grizzly-foia/#axzz7Yro2Ts6K

Weingarten’s articles are well researched and highlight both successful and failures of handgun use against dangerous animals in North America. There are some very enlightening stories. He also wrote a great article on the trends of bear attacks and how they are rapidly increasing.

Here is a good place to start. There is some redundancy and repeated info in the articles, but there are a LOT of detailed accounts and analysis on what worked, what didn’t work, and why.

https://www.ammoland.com/search/?query=Bear+attacks#axzz7Yro2Ts6K

ETA: one of my favorite articles compares the probability of being killed by a bear to being killed by lightning. Pretty interesting…

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/05/bears-or-lightning-which-is-more-deadly/#axzz7Yro2Ts6K
 
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If the light is turned on during the draw, no appreciable time is lost. I practice it almost daily. I agree about the red dot though. They're not a great idea in the wilderness in general, imo.

I can’t say I understand that theory, unless you are worried about breaking the glass or emitter. If you don’t need the sights, no change at all between dot or no dot, but being target focused and letting the dot show up if you DO get to the sights is only a benefit, and target focused, both eyes open, it doesn’t matter if the glass is fogged or dirty or whatever, you’re looking at the target and your eyes will put the dot where it needs to be. I know some folks practice with their dot taped over, to make sure they stay target focused.

And especially in an OWB type of holster, it’s not going to slow down your draw.

Then again, when I lived, hunted fished and trapped in bear country I was typically more worried about startling a moose and getting trampled over tangling with a big bear.
 
I guess whatever holster is comfortable to you, that you can use efficiently, adequately secures the pistol, and doesn't interfere with other equipment on your body. My sidearm I normally carry hunting is a Glock 23 (40 cal). The holster I use with it is a blackhawk serpa. BTW, our potentially dangerous animals are gators, hogs, reptiles, and black bear. The bears can only be killed in defense, and if you are forced to kill one, you will have some explaining to do and won't be allowed to keep anything from that bear- many are chipped/GPS collared. We also have lots of coyotes, but I don't consider them dangerous to a live adult- but I will shoot them on sight.
 
Then again, when I lived, hunted fished and trapped in bear country I was typically more worried about startling a moose and getting trampled over tangling with a big bear.

Me Too, Most of the bear I get into are not huge Bruin’s and trust me I wish they were so I could note the area and come back during the spring or fall season.
 
They seem to be out of stock. But I really like my Hill People chest pack. It works with that size gun very well and does not look like a holster. I've worn mine hiking and doing other things around people and no one had a clue I was carrying. Done right it is quick and easy to get the gun out if needed.

Hill People Gear | Real use gear for backcountry travelers

Their chest pack is great. Use mine for woods walking. Quite a bit of storage space.
 
I can’t say I understand that theory, unless you are worried about breaking the glass or emitter. If you don’t need the sights, no change at all between dot or no dot, but being target focused and letting the dot show up if you DO get to the sights is only a benefit, and target focused, both eyes open, it doesn’t matter if the glass is fogged or dirty or whatever, you’re looking at the target and your eyes will put the dot where it needs to be. I know some folks practice with their dot taped over, to make sure they stay target focused.

And especially in an OWB type of holster, it’s not going to slow down your draw.

Then again, when I lived, hunted fished and trapped in bear country I was typically more worried about startling a moose and getting trampled over tangling with a big bear.

The benefits of a red dot simply do not outweigh the potential issues, from my perspective.

Batteries, the (very high profile) sight getting knocked loose or potentially out of zero, not getting turned on, getting covered in mud or snow or debris or even blood. Now you could say all those things are unlikely because [insert reasons here], but the reality is that if it's a possibility, it's a matter of probability.

All that plus the cost of the sight, the install and zero, time spent training so that using it is instinctive rather than "chasing the dot", gives very little practical benefit over high visibility iron sights, from my perspective.

If it works for you, that's great. Do it. To me, it's just another potential point of failure that I can do without.
 
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In thick brush and such, one wants a pistol that will not hang up on brush or getting into and out of vehicles. But yes at close ranges in brush a bear can be fast. A light can be used at night and you can often catch eye reflection in a light. A small expendable dog can be useful also. If a bear is close a dog may know it before you do and it will likely let you know something is up. It it is too aggressive it might even provoke the bear, so stay away from the small terriers that think they are mastiffs or just do not care.
 
The benefits of a red dot simply do not outweigh the potential issues, from my perspective.

Batteries, the (very high profile) sight getting knocked loose or potentially out of zero, not getting turned on, getting covered in mud or snow or debris or even blood. Now you could say all those things are unlikely because [insert reasons here], but the reality is that if it's a possibility, it's a matter of probability.

All that plus the cost of the sight, the install and zero, time spent training so that using it is instinctive rather than "chasing the dot", gives very little practical benefit over high visibility iron sights, from my perspective.

If it works for you, that's great. Do it. To me, it's just another potential point of failure that I can do without.

Sounds like a simple agree to disagree here, and that’s cool!
 
WrongHanded said:
The benefits of a red dot simply do not outweigh the potential issues, from my perspective.

Batteries, the (very high profile) sight getting knocked loose or potentially out of zero, not getting turned on, getting covered in mud or snow or debris or even blood. Now you could say all those things are unlikely because [insert reasons here], but the reality is that if it's a possibility, it's a matter of probability.

All that plus the cost of the sight, the install and zero, time spent training so that using it is instinctive rather than "chasing the dot", gives very little practical benefit over high visibility iron sights, from my perspective.

If it works for you, that's great. Do it. To me, it's just another potential point of failure that I can do without.
Sounds like a simple agree to disagree here, and that’s cool!

Sounds WrongHanded does not have a lot of experience with red dots. For me, the real downside on glocks bigger than 9mm may be the battering that they would get from recoil of the slide.
But regardless, if one uses co-witness the iron opens sights are still there. If the scenario/circumstance allows it a red dot sight can allow more precise placement from a longer distance. If one is at bad breathe distances one may be pointing the gun or worse case scenario contact shots.
 
Sounds WrongHanded does not have a lot of experience with red dots. For me, the real downside on glocks bigger than 9mm may be the battering that they would get from recoil of the slide.
But regardless, if one uses co-witness the iron opens sights are still there. If the scenario/circumstance allows it a red dot sight can allow more precise placement from a longer distance. If one is at bad breathe distances one may be pointing the gun or worse case scenario contact shots.

You're right. Not a lot of experience with them. Just enough to see the downsides, and make a judgement call that it's not worth the effort to retrain myself.

Co-witness irons address one problem; the unit failing. But if the red dot's lense gets covered in gunk which obscures a sight picture, they're useless.

I'm aware a red dot offers more precision, though I'm not sure how useful that really is under most defensive circumstances. But the cost/benefit scales don't make that worth it to me.
 
You're right. Not a lot of experience with them. Just enough to see the downsides, and make a judgement call that it's not worth the effort to retrain myself.

Co-witness irons address one problem; the unit failing. But if the red dot's lense gets covered in gunk which obscures a sight picture, they're useless.

I'm aware a red dot offers more precision, though I'm not sure how useful that really is under most defensive circumstances. But the cost/benefit scales don't make that worth it to me.

Of course now we are jumping further and further into the what if land. For back up irons to fail we have to both get the gun full of gunk AND have a battery fail, AND also need the gun before we clear the gunk AND be far enough away from the threat that you won’t be contact or point shooting anyway.

What if said gunk (like a fall in mud) clogs up your rear site? Same issue then I guess.

It is interesting that most arguments against dots would apply to any scope as well, yet plenty of folks advocate for scopes in the woods.
 
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I can’t say I understand that theory, unless you are worried about breaking the glass or emitter. If you don’t need the sights, no change at all between dot or no dot, but being target focused and letting the dot show up if you DO get to the sights is only a benefit, and target focused, both eyes open, it doesn’t matter if the glass is fogged or dirty or whatever, you’re looking at the target and your eyes will put the dot where it needs to be. I know some folks practice with their dot taped over, to make sure they stay target focused.

And especially in an OWB type of holster, it’s not going to slow down your draw.

Then again, when I lived, hunted fished and trapped in bear country I was typically more worried about startling a moose and getting trampled over tangling with a big bear.
I believe that moose do injured some people, especially in urban areas and so can be dangerous.
Although moose aren't more dangerous than bears in terms of behavior, they pose a greater threat of injuring you simply because of their population size. Moose outnumber bears nearly three to one in Alaska, wounding around five to 10 people in the state annually. That's more than grizzly bear and black bear attacks combined [source: Smith]. A 2011 CBS news report said that more people are injured by moose than bears each year but rarely are people killed by moose attacks.
https://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/dangerous-moose.htm
 
I believe that moose do injured some people, especially in urban areas and so can be dangerous.

I can say the most scared I was ever out in Alaska was checking some traps on the tundra and running into fresh moose poop and huge tracks. Had to be, or had been very recently, in the cramped thicket with me.

Certainly more concerning than the handful of brown and black bear encounters I had, though one coming in behind me and pushing down small trees while I was in a tree stand was a little worrysome.
 
Of course now we are jumping further and further into the what if land. For back up irons to fail we have to both get the gun full of gunk AND have a battery fail, AND also need the gun before we clear the gunk AND be far enough away from the threat that you won’t be contact or point shooting anyway.

What if said gunk (like a fall in mud) clogs up your rear site? Same issue then I guess.

It is interesting that most arguments against dots would apply to any scope as well, yet plenty of folks advocate for scopes in the woods.

Gunk on either or both side of the lens is a possibility. But to consider your scenario of falling in the mud:

A red dot lens may easily be covered in such a way that it's not possible to clean quickly and get a decent sight picture. If you cannot see through the lens, there's no need for the electronics to fail for the co-witness irons to be useless. And in that case, you are left point shooting. Considering the height of even the smaller red dots, seeing the whole of the slide with the dominant eye isn't likely. In which case the shooter better have practiced by covering that optic with tape, because all they're going to see is the back of their obscured optic.

However, a rear iron sight can be quickly wiped across the top with the support hand. Sure there will be mud in the rear notch, maybe even mud along the sides of the front sight. But there's a view of them to index the gun with, and the whole of slide can be seen. Even if the front sight is raised above the mud filled notch of the rear sight enough to see it, the hold on the target can simply be made low by the same distance as the front sight is exposed above the rear.

And yes, those same arguments do also apply to scopes. But now we're comparing the benefits of a scope on a rifle, to a "scope" on a handgun. A rifle used for close up defense may be better served with express irons. But at the farther distances rifles are often used at, a scope provides far more benefits than weaknesses. And most have no electrical component required to function. A scope on a rifle certainly provides more applicable and practical benefits to precision than a red dot on a handgun is likely to show, in the vast majority of likely scenarios under which the firearm would be deployed (besides recreational or competition shooting).

Now having said that, if you have vision issue to the point where you find iron sights on a pistol will not allow you the precision required for defensive use, a red dot is probably a good idea. If you (or anyone else) can shoot a pistol with iron sights relatively well, you might ask yourself what practical quantitative benefits exactly that red dot is really providing? And are those benefits actually worth the additional potential issues you may encounter with it?

I experimented with the concept (and an actual red dot on a handgun) and made an objective assessment. For me, it's not worth it.
 
A red dot lens may easily be covered in such a way that it's not possible to clean quickly and get a decent sight picture. If you cannot see through the lens, there's no need for the electronics to fail for the co-witness irons to be useless. And in that case, you are left point shooting. Considering the height of even the smaller red dots, seeing the whole of the slide with the dominant eye isn't likely. In which case the shooter better have practiced by covering that optic with tape, because all they're going to see is the back of their obscured optic.

Yes, practicing properly with your equipment is a good idea, I agree.
 
Not looking to derail this thread on red dots, but if you have a red dot and the glass gets covered with mud, you simply have to cant the gun 45 degrees counter clockwise (RH shooter) and aim down the right sure edge of the top of the slide.

Yes, kinda like a “hood gangsta”, but you are using the plane of the slide for an aiming point. Yes, it works out to 20’yards pretty well, especially with a Glock due to its blocky slide and defined corner.
 
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