Using matched brass?

One thing I noticed about 50 BMG brass, depending on how it was manufactured, the brass could be thicker or thinner on one side.

You can see the punch marks in the bottom of the case. If they're off center, the brass will measure differently side to side.

Companies that use different manufacturing methods, I don't find these issues.

Mk-211 said:

depending on how it was manufactured, the brass could be thicker or thinner on one side.

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That's true with all calibers and ammo manufacturers.

I believe you are seeing the effects of neck tension based on the different formulas used for brass and different wall thicknesses. I always sort for headstamp.

savagelover said:

I have been doing some testing on using the same brand of brass in my Rossi 92. 357 cal with Lyman mold 358 156. Only shooting 40 yards. Using 15.0 2400 . Shooting from a rest with red dot sight. Any way I was using mixed brass. Win,fed,PMC. I was amazed at the change in point of impact. All mv approx. 1456 fps. I would get maybe 3 in 1 1/4 inch with the win. The PMC went about 3 inches high. Fed shot left about 2 inch. Then went back to the win. Right back where it was before. I even cleaned the barrel and started over. Same as before. S it the brass or just a fluke? Should have tried this before instead of just using the random brass. I will be doing this again to see the difference,if there is again..

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Your discovered why we sort brass by mfg. Best if all from the same lot. It does make a difference, pistol and rifle.

When reloading accurate ammo ... the word to remember is ... Consistency ....
The more consistent every part of a reload is , the more consistent the groups will be .
It starts with the brass , then you want consistant primers , powder charge , bullets , trimmed shell length , OAL and COAL . When seating primers you want consistant primer seating ....
The more consistant everything is the better your groups will be .

Handgun shooting tin cans at 15 feet ... it doesn't really matter about mixed brass and maybe inconsistant plated bullets . But the more the distance is , the better the sights and with a rifle ... you will see a difference.
Gary

9mmepiphany said:

That's the problem with sorting brass, it removes an excuse for when you jerk the trigger.

I've always sorted my .38Spl cases by headstamp...I only trim the ones I load polymer coated bullets in. I don't sort by factory/machine (font), but I do separate out cases marked "W-W" and "Winchester" or "Western". I also load nickled cases separately.

When developing a new load, I want to remove as many variables as possible

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I've been running ww and Win together, I haven't tested for differences.

Shooting groups with a rifle at 100+ yards, or shooting competition... definitely use matched brass.
Shooting a pistol offhand... mixed brass works just fine.
Have shot a ton of offhand pistol, and shoot a huge variety of range brass. With 8 rounds, probably 3 different brands. lol Casual shooting or banging steel... No problem. Shooting over a chrono, extremely tight velocity spreads. You'd never know it was mixed brass. (mild to moderate 9mm... 147 grain FMJ at 980 fps)
Application, application...
Good Luck

savagelover said:

I will be doing this again to see the difference,if there is again..

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When I see things like that, I get someone else to shoot, just to see if it’s me or not.

AJC1 said:

I believe you are seeing the effects of neck tension based on the different formulas used for brass and different wall thicknesses. I always sort for headstamp.

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Can you explain a bit further how neck tension would affect POI with .357 at 40 yards? Especially since the OP mentions they all have the same MV?

One other thing to add to your concerns OP is the crimp. They all need to be crimped the same to be consistant and that means trimming all the same length to start. Then look at neck wall thickness between brands as well, that changes bullet exit pressure also. If looking for accuracy I inside neck chamfer/ream so that I don't have to flare the necks as much and they don't score the bullet or coating.

AJC1 said:

I believe you are seeing the effects of neck tension based on the different formulas used for brass and different wall thicknesses. I always sort for headstamp.

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I've always suspected this. Heavier brass on one side of the case will crimp different than the brass on the other side of the case.

Blue68f100 said:

Your discovered why we sort brass by mfg. Best if all from the same lot. It does make a difference, pistol and rifle.

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I agree, I sort all my brass and have for decades.

9mmepiphany said:

That's the problem with sorting brass, it removes an excuse for when you jerk the trigger.

I've always sorted my .38Spl cases by headstamp...I only trim the ones I load polymer coated bullets in. I don't sort by factory/machine (font), but I do separate out cases marked "W-W" and "Winchester" or "Western". I also load nickled cases separately.

When developing a new load, I want to remove as many variables as possible

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So do I, I like my ammo as good as it can be. Then I can work on "me".

Buy 500 or 100 factory new brass. Keep the numbers of times fired in rotation. Reload as a batch. Same lots of components.

Use your tested load data. You now have match grade ammo. How i do 45acp ammo.

*If you cant hold a group or gun is not match grade, forget all of above. *

savagelover said:

I have been doing some testing on using the same brand of brass in my Rossi 92. 357 cal with Lyman mold 358 156. Only shooting 40 yards. Using 15.0 2400 . Shooting from a rest with red dot sight. Any way I was using mixed brass. Win,fed,PMC. I was amazed at the change in point of impact. All mv approx. 1456 fps. I would get maybe 3 in 1 1/4 inch with the win. The PMC went about 3 inches high. Fed shot left about 2 inch. Then went back to the win. Right back where it was before. I even cleaned the barrel and started over. Same as before. S it the brass or just a fluke? Should have tried this before instead of just using the random brass. I will be doing this again to see the difference,if there is again..

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I personally have not seen that much difference between mixed and matching brass. Not meaning to doubt your findings, and apologies if it comes across that way!
My hunting, defense and match ammo is all loaded with matching headstamps. But I also shoot a lot of mixed headstamp range brass. My latest comparison is with a heavy barrel 223 bolt gun. Mixed brass shoots between 5/8th and 3/4 inch. Carefully prepped Lapua brass consistently shoots between 1/2 and 9/16's. All of these are with the same exact load with 5 shot groups at 100 yards. I take mixed brass on our Prairie Dog hunts because I don't want to loose any Lapua. It shoots good enough to hit Prairie Dogs out to 300 yards or so. Thats about as far as we shoot, at the places we go.

lightman said:

My latest comparison is with a heavy barrel 223 bolt

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The 223 is going to be more accurate then a 357, i hope.

I did a test with 5.56 LC mixed brass. Gave brass the full BR treatment. Did ok in my Axis.

I can shoot crappy groups with matched or unmatched brass. In 1983, at the height of my prairie dog passion; I loaded 10 rounds of match precision ammo and 10 rounds of non- match all different cases. Caliber was 223 Rem and 25-06 Win, all batches fired in bolt guns. The ammo was loaded out of the same bottle of powder and same box of bullets for each caliber. The 'junk' ammo was 5/8" to 3/4" group sizes, the carefully crafted match ammo was 1" to 1-1/8" group size. Conclusion: tumbled, sized, loaded brass produces acceptable to better groups (Dillon 450) than sorted 'match' ammo (RCBS RockChucker and weighed powder charge) in 1/2 the time..

savagelover said:

What's so special about the lee fastory crimp die?

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..........................Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go......................................!!

Soonerpesek said:

..........................Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go......................................!!

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Same thing I thought. Went and got me some fresh popcorn...

I load them all the same but sort them them then box them and shoot them by brand. I trim my pistol brass when needed too for consistency. Not overly precise but anything over max gets a turn down. I think it helps.

savagelover said:

What's so special about the lee fastory crimp die?

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I went and purchased Lee Factory Crimp dies for about everything I reload... then stopped crimping almost everything. lol

n2omike said:

I went and purchased Lee Factory Crimp dies for about everything I reload... then stopped crimping almost everything. lol

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People are all over the Map depending which version you have... I love my 357 die but don't crimp rifle other than lead loads in tubes.