Ammo Question

Errrr... Freedom Munitions, has had ups and downs in quality. Some of the "downs" resulted in KaBoomed rifles.

Try the Saltech at Outdoor Unlimited.

MR WICK said:

No way. Been shooting their stuff for two years.

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Then why ask?

The fact that they advertise FMJ bullets for hunting makes me wonder how much they actually know about ammunition.

“It mita choked Arty, but it ain’t gonna choke Styme”

MR WICK said:

I was referring to it blowing up?

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If you’re shooting it for 2 years, seems like you’d be more experienced than most in the accuracy of the ammo you’re asking about in the thread.

If the purpose is making noise, it’ll go bang - probably. I wouldn’t personally waste barrel life in a 1/2moa rifle on ammo like that, but you do you, boo.

MR WICK said:

Never tried to shoot it past 550 yards

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How is it grouping at 0-550?

MR WICK said:

I know it can be a lot better.

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Especially if we can get you to shoot something other than FMJ.

MR WICK said:

I shoot every day or every other day so I don't want to buy the expensive stuff until I get past 600 yards.

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Color me green. I feel like lucky if I get to shoot twice in a month lately.
But, do you want quantity, or quality?
It’s a hard thing. Shooting is fun. Shooting more is more fun.
Is shooting smaller with less rounds as fun?
That is a question only you can answer.

I’ll tell ya though, shooting small is fun.
Lose the Full Metals, get some Hornady Ammunition with a soft point bullet and see what your rifle can really do.

Shooting with the good stuff is practice. Blammo ammo is just plinking.
(You are really good at plinking though. My .223 targets at six hundred don’t have groups, just hits.)

If you sample enough ammunition, sooner or later you’ll find some that doesn’t shoot well.
In others words stick to what your gun likes, no one can tell you what load is best just what worked in theirs.

In 223 I've found fmj ammo both bought and reloads to be less accurate than sp or hp, also found that fb at 100 to 300yrds to be a better choice than bt (62and 69gr), when I shot 600yrds at CMP Talladega one gun liked 69gr hpbt loaded near max. When I loaded some 30-06 for the Garand and 03a3 I also found sp a better choice than fmj but the fmj was pulls

MR WICK said:

This was 500 today. I'm still getting used to her. I know it can be a lot better.

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So if it’s shooting something around .8-1moa at 500, consistent with your group a couple of weeks ago, then knowing your velocity and BC, you can predict your transonic boundary to know at which distance things may go squirrelly, and then the rest is just a matter of admitting that groups get bigger with distance. If you’re holding .8-1moa at 500, then the rifle likes the ammo, and honestly, there may be nothing which shoots any smaller than that for that rifle - but you can largely trust that you should get another 300yrds before it could be at risk of tripping too hard, maybe another 400-500yrds, so 1-1.5moa at 800-1000 should be attainable. In other words, if I shot those groups at 500 then reached out to 800-1000 (barring transonic complications) and the wheels came off, I wouldn’t look first at the ammo; I’d know there was some other systemic error being introduced.

But you’re shooting it, you know it’s shooting small. Online opinion or even conflicting experiences won’t change how YOUR rifle shoots. If junk bulk ammo shoots great in your rifle, then be grateful you have been blessed with access to low cost ammo - more often than not, it doesn’t work that way.

MR WICK said:

This was 500 today. I'm still getting used to her. I know it can be a lot better.

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That looks like one of my groups at a hundred!

MR WICK said:

This was 500 today. I'm still getting used to her. I know it can be a lot better.

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Are all those targets in the attachment yours and from that rifle ?

The kabooms with Freedom Munitions were with the old company. Freedom Munitions was bought out about 2 years ago and has better QA/QC than the previous company.

Earlier this year I bought some of their Match 308 with a 175 SMK. I found it to be better than M80 ball but not what I would consider match grade. Here is what I wrote about it on another forum:

"I used a MagneetoSpeed chrono and did most of my group shooting off a sturdy bench. I used a heavy front sand bag to push against my bipod and rear bags.

I chrono'd two sets of 5 rounds. I didnt write down the individual shot velocities but here is the info.

Average velocity: 2630 FPS
ES: 51
SD: 18

Average velocity: 2640 FPS
ES: 48
SD: 19

Just for reference I ran 5 rounds of Winchester M80 ball over the chrono.

Average velocity: 2811 FPS
ES: 60
SD: 23

5 shot groups measured with calipers, listed smallest to largest

0.61"
0.85"
1.12"
1.17"
1.25"
1.30"
1.45"

M80 ball measured 3.1 inches with 4 rounds in a 2 inch cluster and 1 flyer. With the Freedom Munitions I had several groups that had a cluster going and then one or two flyers away from the group. A couple groups were just a pattern. All shots felt good at the time. I had one group with a called pulled shot that wasn't measured but it was around 2 inches."

The rifle used is my APR Ranger 308. With Federal Gold Medal Match 168 and 175 SMK ammo this rifle will routinely shoot sub 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. Even when Im not on my game it shoots .6 to .7.

On the other hand my shooting buddy bought a bunch of their Match 6.5 Creedmoor with 140 SMK and his Bergara shoots them pretty dang good. Though with the higher than wanted variations in muzzle velocity you start to see noticeable vertical stringing at extended ranges.

That is some fine shooting MrWick.

CoalCrackerAl said:

That is some fine shooting MrWick.

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I know, right?
Maybe they’re using Hornady’s FMJs. I based my response on my experience, it is nothing like Mr Wick’s. That target would have been fairly safe with some of the “military type” stuff I’ve shot.
That doesn’t seem to shoot badly enough to nix it from the roster. I’d practice with that for a few hundred more rounds, if it were cheap enough. But I care not about burning barrel life. And it seems Wick likes shooting so…


Can I change my vote to “good enough for now”?

I need to put one of my splatter burst targets at 300 yards. And see how i can do. 300 is our ranges longest.

Please excuse MY ignorance but I have to ask :

What was the purpose of which You purchased your rifle for ?. Long range shooting if I recall correct ?. And You're not using premium ammo WHY ?. I'd NOT waste the barrel on cheapo stuff and immediately run the very best ammo , that You can either make or purchase and see JUST how good at 500-550 the Rifle really is . Quality NOT quantity of groups determines accuracy . IMO

Ditto

That’s great results for 500 yards. Keep shooting whatever produces it and buy more when you see it for sale.

Pursuing the accuracy genie isn’t a cheap hobby.

BushMaster-15 said:

Quality NOT quantity of groups determines accuracy .

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This is a distinct and inescapable reality.

Remember, despite internet Fuddery, not all trigger time is good trigger time. Days behind the rifle practicing the wrong habits will instill the wrong habits, and if you’re doing the wrong things in higher volume than you’re doing the right things in practice because you’re just blasting with cheap or low performing ammo, you’re getting worse when you should be improving. Recall the 5P’s:

“Perfect Practice Prevents Poor Performance”

Because “practice makes perfect” is only true if the practice is productive, and not passive. No apathy on the firing line - you’re always training your finger, whether you’re training the right thing or not.

If these groups were shot with this cheap ammo, then keep buying it and keep doing this. I’d look at shot to shot and lot to lot velocity consistency and group reliability as a next phase.