Paging varminterror or other long range shooters: top optics?

The best bang for the buck is the Arken SH4 4-16x50 or the SH5 6-24x50.
I have the 4-16 and for the money it's pretty hard to beat.

For top end scopes I've been pretty happy with Nightforce and NF mounts.

Absolutely agree with you on getting ‘real people’s’ comments! A number of really good shooters here. For other opinions consider looking at:

https://precisionrifleblog.com/category/optics/rifle-scopes/
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/12/21/best-scope/
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2017/03/03/long-range-scopes-pros-use/

What's your budget?
There's several good scope's in the $850+ range, some great scopes in the $1500+ range, then you step up to the Alpha tier scopes at the $3000+ range.
I don't consider most cheaper priced scopes worth wasting money on if you are really wanting to shoot long range.

The hot optic in PRS has been the Tangent Theta TT525p Gen3 XR for a couple of years now. The Kahles K525i DLR and Zero Compromise ZC527 are top performers. Don’t see many Schmidt & Bender PMII’s, but they’re out there.

The Vortex Razor Gen3 has hit the market hard and fast, with the Gen2 before it holding substantial prevalence in the game. The Gen3 raised in price considerably over the Gen2 - although, of course, nobody is paying retail price for Vortex (or almost any of these others, for that matter). We see boatloads of Vortex optics around, in part because they’re good optics, but also because they are typically fantastic supporters of the sport and put certs and products on prize tables all over the country.

Naturally, the Nightforce ATACR 5-25x and 7-35x have been dominant as well, with the occasional NX8 here and there. The Leupold Mk5 HD’s have a loyal following as well.

Stepping down in price, I personally favor the Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR II/III and XRS II/III. The Burris XTR III Pro made a huge leap in performance and features over the XTRII’s - probably fair for me to admit the III Pro’s have a better feature set than the Bushnells I use - although I find the image a bit more “blue” in the Burris and with a bit more grit, so I favor the look of the Bushnells. I’ve generally gotten my DMR II/Pro’s and XRS for under $1000, and having the same reticle across a lot of rifles sure doesn’t hurt.

We see some Tract Toric’s, a lot of Vortex Viper PST’s and here and there Strike Eagles and Venoms, the odd Athlon or Arken, very infrequent SigSauer Tango4/6’s. Seems most of the oddballs here are typically dependent upon area - I’ve seen a lot of Colorado/Wyoming guys using Burris XTR’s, Missouri guys using Bushnells, then some clubs will have a hot Athlon seller who owns a range and the entry level guys will be running all Athlons…

With my money on the line, Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR III’s would my go-to affordable optic, then Leupold Mk5HD a step above, Nightforce ATACR again above, and finally Tangent Theta at the pinnacle. I do love my Kahles, and wish all of my scopes had left-side windage and top parallax - I can see everything from behind the scope, but the TT has a bit more generous eyebox and is a little cleaner at 25x.

Features I find valuable (or invaluable) for PRS or other field-shooting:

• First Focal Plane
• Zero Stop
• Rev Indicator
• mil/mil turrets & reticle
• .2-.25 mil windage marks on the reticle*
• Open dot center
• Christmas tree reticle
• Reliable tracking
• Great clarity, resolution, and low/no CA

* I’ll forgive the .2-.25mil windage and use 1/2mil windage marks for better glass in a lower cost optic.

What I would want and would use for fixed distance, KD square range competition would be different.

@1KPerDay yhere is a sticky in the rifle sub forum on this exact subject matter. It's a pretty good read

1KPerDay said:

1. what's the advantage of top parallax? Left side windage? Is that so you can dial windage with your shooting hand on the gun? Do people do that?

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I can SEE the windage adjustment behind the rifle, and more readily as I approach the line. So if and when I DO dial for windage (which I have started doing more regularly), I can more naturally confirm my windage before a stage starts and even during the stage. The only way things could be better for visibility for me would be if my rifle were a left port. I can see my data card, windage, elevation, level, and parallax all without breaking my cheekweld. I’ll reach over the top to adjust my windage on the clock if I need to - or adjust with my left hand while moving with or placing the rifle. But typically, I don’t adjust on the clock.

1KPerDay said:

2. You say "What I would want and would use for fixed distance, KD square range competition would be different."
How would your choices differ? No need for horus/christmas tree? Open center reticle, etc?

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Different tools for different tasks. Shooting Benchrest or F-class, 1/8moa adjustments are extremely useful. I MIGHT still want an open dot, but that certainly depends upon the target being used. Don’t really need or want a Christmas tree when you’re NEVER changing target distance. A fine center duplex is sufficient there too.

To be clear, I don’t really like the Horus or TReMoR reticles - the wall of reticle is just too much. Christmas trees have enough open space to retain better visibility when I recoil up and in so I can spot my splash behind or beside the tree.

1KPerDay said:

What would your top three choices be in that case?

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I shot 600/1000 BR for a short time in college, and tried F-class even more briefly at a local range, but it simply isn’t my game, and wasn’t then - so I’m not hip on what is the best optic to chase for those games today. I’d be looking for a fine reticle, SFP, either a floating center dot or an ultra fine stadia with a slightly larger center dot. I MIGHT want to keep some indicator hashes, depending upon the shape and scale of targets used, but I think that’s largely because I’m forever tainted (I was raised on mil-dots, and now I almost exclusively shoot Christmas trees).

I used to love the NF BR line, I had an 8-32x for a while, really fantastic scope. That would probably be my starting point if I went back to LR BR or F-Class, assuming it received the blessing from guys more current in the sport like @South Prairie Jim, @Walkalong, or @Nature Boy . I just don’t shoot those games, so can’t say what’s winning. But I’d chase what’s winning, otherwise I’d be buying twice, and that’s not cheap.

If your objective is to focus on shooting for score in a Bench rest of F Class type format you’ll want as much magnification as you can get, 1/8 MOA, SFP with an uncluttered reticle. With that said, you can make due with a MIL, FFP and less magnification scope. I made high master in F-TR with a 6-24x56 Kahles that was MIL and FFP.

When I decided to have a custom F Open rifle built I switched to MOA and went with a Kahles 10-50x56. A scope like this would absolutely suck in any kind of practical shooting discipline so the different features don’t translate equally

Not being to clear on where your goals are leading you I’d say go with a FFP MIL with a reticle you like as this would be the most versatile.

@Varminterror has done a great job breaking down which brands and models to consider and I can’t add anything to it

1KPerDay said:

Thanks again. One more noob question: @Varminterror Is the Horus or Tremor reticle not considered a christmas tree? Are they really two types of ranging/hold off reticles?

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The Horus and TReMoR reticles are kinda beasts of their own breed. They share some attributes with a Christmas Tree, but they have more features and more hashes, so they simply have more MORE in front of your eye. The H59 and TReMoR are more like “high rise buildings” than “Christmas Trees.” I call them “wall reticles,” as there’s a major wall of reticle with wind dots and both minor and major windage lines, measuring devices, lead lines, etc:




The Nightforce Mil-XT is right on the edge, as it has the intermediate wind dots and the wider of these others, but uses smaller dots rather than stadia lines for the hashes:


Whereas most “Christmas tree” reticles are simpler, with less noise obscuring your target - so it’s much easier to see splash through these reticles if/when we miss targets:

The most important aspect in my line of work( 1000 yard Benchrest) is a scope that is mechanically sound, tracks perfect and holds point of impact, I currently use this scope with the floating dot hash mark moa reticle https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-golden-eagle-hd.html
With a Sightron 8-32x56 2 moa reticle as a back up.
Added : I did not and would not pay the price now listed for GE /HD glass, the newer Nightforce comp with ED and March high master has superED glass is in the > $2400 category

1KPerDay said:

Most likely 800-1000+, bench or prone bipod shooting on stationary targets and not on the clock. But I do want to learn about options for PRS as well.

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If you’re shooting itty bitty groups on targets at those distances, and not transitioning between distances within a given string, then an SFP with a fine crosshair and 1/8moa adjustments makes sense.

If you’ll be going belly down with your phone beside your rifle and playing, “bang—-ting! Awesome, shot! Now see if you can hit that IPSC at 967!” with targets at varying distances, then FFP with a Christmas tree.

Your scope choice kind of depends on what type of shooting you plan to do. And what distance and your budget.

Its been a few years since I've competed in long range shooting but when I did I used a March 10-60 with a fine crosshair and 1/8th inch adjustments. At the time it was a $2500 scope. It was Crystal clear, tracked perfectly and held zero. For that price it should. I would see a mix of Nightforce Benchrest, high end Bushnel, Vortex and even a few fixed 36 power Leupolds and Weavers on the firing line. Sightron makes some good scopes at fairly modest prices and are "a good bang for the buck". The March is the most expensive scope that I have owned.

I have Nightforce on my varmint rifles and either have the old fashion Mil-Dot or something like Taliv pictured in post #17. I've learned to range with the Mil-Dot reticule and I'm comfortable with it. I usually dial these scopes. Personally I don't like a "busy" reticule like Varminterror pictured in post #14. But to each his own. On my hunting rifles I like a duplex reticule like Leupold uses and I zero the scope and never touch the dials.