What powder for .25 acp?

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I handloaded some new .25 ammo.

PPU brass, 50 gr Rem fmj. OAL .900 CCI SSP. 700x 1.1 grs. 30 rds, no malfunctions. Beretta 21A.

759 777 777 780 753 812 764 and a few errors. Not bad.

But then I tested same as above but with a load from an older manual of 1.4 grs Titegroup:

959 972 965 924 1002 925 991 963 998. Average 966 fps.

I had malfunction on the last round, a failure to feed. I have another 21 of these and not sure if I should fire them.

The brass looked fine, recoil didn't feel excessive. Is this load at the top of .25 acp or way over? I would have been happier with an average of 850 to 875. Will drop down to 1.3 gr if I use Titegroup again.

But it's much faster using my now-calibrated Lee dipper for 1.1 gr of 700x. (Shaved down a .17 cc dipper)
 
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Just wanted to add that I disassembled the remaining loads of 1.4 gr Titegroup.

No pressure signs beyond the high velocities but...software program showed me the pressure must be high. (9 shot avg 960 fps 50 gr)

Will try 1.2 gr Titegroup and see how that goes.
 
I decided after my likely dangerous experience with Titegroup and Titegroup not being a good powder for max loads and / or tight spaces I'm not going above 1.1 grs with it.

I've also done 1.1 grs of 700x and that works out okay but I'd like less velocity spread.

Now, I'd like to try CFE Pistol again. Perhaps it's slower nature will have less velocity swing when the powder charge varies a tick. Quickload shows CFE P being too slow and "low pressure". But Hogdon lists up to 1.5 gr with a 50 gr FMJ.

Have any of you used CFE P in .25 acp?
 
Hodgdon says 1.2 to 1.5 for CFE.

But my computer calculator, using the 50 gr bullets I measured the length and seating depth of to get the most accurate results, says that even a 98% case fill, or 2.0 grs, of CFE P still won't exceed the 25k psi limit.

Why is that?

Also, I re-ran the 1.4 gr load of Titegroup in the computer and it actually was right at the pressure limit, but not over. However, it also showed an expected velocity of around 930 fps with the 50 gr bullet and mine averaged about 970. Perhaps my chargers were over 1.4? Or perhaps Titegroup simply went nuts in that tiny space? Just curious. Like I said I'm not playing around with max charges of Titegroup in .25 anymore.

Anyway, why does the calculator show I can run so much CFEP? Even with a 98% fill of it and 50 gr bullet it gave under max pressure and about 830 fps IIRC.

I put a few together with CFE P at 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5. I'll report back.
 
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CFE is slower, so pressure doesn't peak quite so quickly.
I wouldn't use a fast powder, and I really wouldn't use TiteGroup.
My initial choices would be slow powders with high bulk density (say True Blue and slower)
 
Shivahasagun said:
Hodgdon says 1.2 to 1.5 for CFE.

But my computer calculator, using the 50 gr bullets I measured the length and seating depth of to get the most accurate results, says that even a 98% case fill, or 2.0 grs, of CFE P still won't exceed the 25k psi limit.

Why is that?

Also, I re-ran the 1.4 gr load of Titegroup in the computer and it actually was right at the pressure limit, but not over. However, it also showed an expected velocity of around 930 fps with the 50 gr bullet and mine averaged about 970. Perhaps my chargers were over 1.4? Or perhaps Titegroup simply went nuts in that tiny space? Just curious. Like I said I'm not playing around with max charges of Titegroup in .25 anymore.

Anyway, why does the calculator show I can run so much CFEP? Even with a 98% fill of it and 50 gr bullet it gave under max pressure and about 830 fps IIRC.

I put a few together with CFE P at 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5. I'll report back.
Click to expand...
I seem to recall when the discussion of modeling software was going on there was also discussion of not relying on any simulation model in lieu of testing data. There’s also the matter of testing to optimum overall performance, not simply to the limits of maximum average “pressure”.
“Pressure” in quotes because the platform makes a difference in pressure testing.
 
I tried CFEP again with 50 gr fmj bullets.

1.3, 1.4, 1.5 gr. As usual, this powder wasn't really happy with any of it.

Velocity ranged from 608 to 735 fps. But there was barely any difference in performance between charges. The higher charge had fewer low numbers but still as low as 635. There was more bang and more recoil with the high charge with barely any increase in performance. I've seen this a few times with this powder.

Also I had a few stoppages with the 1.3 and one in 1.4, probably due to low pressure. The 1.5 ran fine.

I've used CFEP in .357 (up to max) .38 spec +p (up to max?) .45 acp, .32 Long, .32 magnum, and .25 acp (up to max) and it's been a let down every single time.

The only thing left I have any interest in trying with this powder is a .32 magnum +p load. (From a .327 mag LCR)

I hear CFEP does well in a max 9x19 and max .45 acp charge, but I have no interest in that.

Is CFEP worthless or what?

If I were you (dear reader) i'd focus on perfect metering of Titegroup in .25 acp and stick with that. It has the capability of mild to wild in this caliber.
 
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Shivahasagun said:
I tried CFEP again with 50 gr fmj bullets.

1.3, 1.4, 1.5 gr. As usual, this powder wasn't really happy with any of it.

Velocity ranged from 608 to 735 fps. But there was barely any difference in performance between charges. The higher charge had fewer low numbers but still as low as 635. There was more bang and more recoil with the high charge with barely any increase in performance. I've seen this a few times with this powder.

Also I had a few stoppages with the 1.3 and one in 1.4, probably due to low pressure. The 1.5 ran fine.

I've used CFEP in .357 (up to max) .38 spec +p (up to max?) .45 acp, .32 Long, .32 magnum, and .25 acp (up to max) and it's been a let down every single time.

The only thing left I have any interest in trying with this powder is a .32 magnum +p load. (From a .327 mag LCR)

I hear CFEP does well in a max 9x19 and max .45 acp charge, but I have no interest in that.

Is CFEP worthless or what?

If I were you (dear reader) i'd focus on perfect metering of Titegroup in .25 acp and stick with that. It has the capability of mild to wild in this caliber.
Click to expand...
Thanks Shiva, duly noted. :):D:D
 
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