My Opinion On Some of The Common CCW Handgun Calibers

.308 Norma said:

Well, I'm pretty "good" with both of my Glocks too. Not as good as I am with better pistols though. And while I like my Glocks, I'll readily admit there's a LOT of better pistols out there.

Click to expand...

I like Glocks also!!!! Just like to give Glock guys a hard time.

There is a definite decision path I seem to follow when deciding what to carry that day.

First is the choice of whether I will try to conceal or just open carry. Next is the belt that will hopefully hold up whichever pair of shorts I picked out. Then based on those two factors, which holster will be the most comfortable and that in turn may determine which pistol gets chosen. If it's going to be an IWB kydex then in most cases only one of my handguns will fit. That's not always true though; I have a half dozen or so snubbies that will all fit in the same kydex IWB holster and my S&W Shield 2.0 45acp and my S&W 469 9mm both fit in and even audibly snap in place in their kydex holster.

If it's going to be leather then often several handguns will fit in the same rig.

Caliber though really doesn't factor in; I feel equally protected with one of my 32acp pistols or 32 S&W long revolvers as when I carry a 45acp pistol or revolver. Capacity also doesn't play a great part in the decision, it's whatever is the normal capacity of the revolver or the magazine I fill that day.

We only get four or five cold days a year down here so cover is usually a Guayabera, a fishing shirt or a Hawaiian print at most.

But the one constant factor is that there will always be an heir and a spare.

No Glocks though.

Two holes are better than one. Cast bullets with big meplats get it done in handguns.

For a jacketed bullet company, that fact is a problem. So time to invent “important” stuff like expansion, weight retention, wound channel, penetration….

LOL

What?

No 9mm, 357 SIG, 10mm in the OP?

If I was going to carry a 40, I'd probably opt for 357 SIG.

If I was going to carry a 45, I'd probably opt for a 10mm

But for 90% of my purposes: 9mm all the way.

Capacity is hard to beat.

the best caliber/cartrdige is hands down the one you actually shoot very very well, very very fast, in the handgun of your liking. If that is .22LR or .45 LC, so be it.

jar said:

But the one constant factor is that there will always be an heir and a spare.

No Glocks though.

Click to expand...

I can only take this to mean that if you lose a gun fight your two kids will inherit your guns.

Perhaps they will trade them for Glocks.

.38 Special said:

I can only take this to mean that if you lose a gun fight your two kids will inherit your guns.

Perhaps they will trade them for Glocks.

Click to expand...

LOL!

Caliber threads…gotta love them!

There isn’t a magic bullet or a magic gun. You can have a safe full of guns in all calibers and ammo types…but if you can’t shoot it well, your just making a show. Symbolism over substance. Great in politics and the media…lousy in a gunfight.

Be the guy who can be sitting down with his girlfriend eating crappy Chinese food in an Indiana mall, when a thug decides to start shooting at people with an AR. Be that guy who can secure his companion, draw his handgun, and put 8 of 10 shots on target in the chaos of an active shooting without hitting anyone running back and forth in front of him, and put the goblin down less than 30 seconds from his first shot, from over 40 yards away.

Does that guy worry about what cartridge he’s shooting, or does he worry about being able to perform with what he’s carrying?


BTW…he had a 9MM Glock…

Something interesting happened a few years back.

The FBI came out with bullet performance criteria that they thought was most effective.

X number of inches of penetration in calibrated Gel. Without over penetrating X number of inches in Gel.

In bare gel. With layers of clothing. Etc.

The ammo manufacturers said, ok. That’s what the FBI wants in duty ammo. Let’s make it.

Some ammo was sped up. Some was slowed down. Jacket designs tweaked. Etc.

And, 9mm. .40. And .45 all preformed exactly the same. To the standards the FBI had outlined.

It was then stated, as fact, that since all handgun rounds perform exactly the same, in all the tests, the light handy low recoiling 9mm is the best choice.

And, agencies that were happy with their 40’s and 45’s switched to the 9mm. Because, all handgun ammo preforms exactly the same.

Which may not actually be the case if ammo manufacturers were not designing duty ammo, to preform exactly the same.

Well, someone needs to bring up the Greg Ellifritz study and it might as well be me. To cut to the chase, there isn't much statistical difference in the stopping or incapacitation power of the standard defensive pistol cartridges, namely 380, .38, 9mm, 357, .40, and 45. Shotguns are better than handguns, and centerfire rifles are better than shotguns. That last part doesn't make a lot of sense to me, given what happens when a 12 gauge is spewing buckshot at close range and if I remember right there is some doubt in Ellifritz's data because of the unscientific nature of reporting gunshot injuries but there does seem to be a rational basis, more or less, for his conclusions.

This thread is a literal carbon copy of one the OP started in May...
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/my-personal-handgun-caliber-dogma.905118/

Apparently, we're never tire of such discussions.

TarDevil said:

This thread is a literal carbon copy of one the OP started in May...
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/my-personal-handgun-caliber-dogma.905118/

Apparently, we're never tire of such discussions.

Click to expand...

My wife tells me that men are pretty much the most simple creature God made. We never get tired of discussing (and cussing) trucks, guns, breakfast foods, dogs, power tools, and country songs….

Buzznrose said:

and country songs

Click to expand...

Uh, I'll pass!

Hmmm... Gives me a subject idea!

TarDevil said:

This thread is a literal carbon copy of one the OP started in May...
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/my-personal-handgun-caliber-dogma.905118/

Apparently, we're never tire of such discussions.

Click to expand...

I'll take this everyday over another mousegun thread.
I see this thread, I'm like ...

LookAtYou said:

I would definitely prefer .40 over .357sig or 10mm in CCW sized guns. Like 4" barrel or smaller. The .40 tends to expand larger than .357, and the 10mm is just a lot of energy, recoil, and not as much capacity as the .40 in similar sized guns. I also think .40>.45acp. .40 often has more power, expansion, penetration, and capacity.

Click to expand...

LookAtYou said:

I think to say "all handgun rounds perform exactly the same" is ridiculous. Also even though 9mm, .40, and .45 have all improved over the years, there are still differences in ballistics, where for example .40 is still a larger more powerful round than 9mm.

Click to expand...

True statements that matter little.

Good hits (CNS) with proper bullets (expansion + penetration) override any caliber differences.

LookAtYou said:

I would definitely prefer .40 over .357sig or 10mm in CCW sized guns. Like 4" barrel or smaller. The .40 tends to expand larger than .357, and the 10mm is just a lot of energy, recoil, and not as much capacity as the .40 in similar sized guns. I also think .40>.45acp. .40 often has more power, expansion, penetration, and capacity.

Click to expand...

Idk how you are comparing 40 and 10mm "in similar sized guns"

10mm fits in 45acp sized guns, gets you more capacity, everything the 40 does plus a bit extra.

The 357 SIG vs 40 is potato, potato. My experience with 357 SIG is more positive than 40.

With that, I wish you health and good luck!

Caliber wars on the internet can be interesting but I find many of them fruitless.

LookAtYou said:

I think to say "all handgun rounds perform exactly the same" is ridiculous. Also even though 9mm, .40, and .45 have all improved over the years, there are still differences in ballistics, where for example .40 is still a larger more powerful round than 9mm.

Click to expand...

This picture is all over the web.

No no no. All handgun rounds perform exactly the same! Here’s proof!



Of rounds all designed to perform exactly the same.

The premise, to make all rounds perform “The same” involves minimum and maximum X inches of Penetration. That I don’t necessarily believe.

And, expansion, that I don’t find all that critical.

I want accuracy and, penetration. If it expands, at the cost of penetration, it’s not a good trade off for me.

Poke a hole. Poke the biggest hole you can. Poke it all the way through.

The magic bullet that started all this debate was the 9mm Silvertip in Miami. That round hit Platt in the arm. Entered his chest and, stopped before it hit his heart.

9mm ball would likely have penetrated his heart, and probably the opposite side lung.

Anyway. The caliber war is somewhat interesting. But, is absolutely a dog chasing it’s tail.

If I’m in a lightly populated area, I carry .357 Magnum 158 GR Hardcast.

LookAtYou said:

What 10mm gun gives you 13+1, at or under a 4" barrel?

Click to expand...

Whelp, I'm back I guess LOL

What 40 caliber framed gun can you shoot 10mm out of? It's not a good comparison they are not used in the same frame guns. 10mm would be up to replace the 45 because they come in the same sized frame.

I think you might benefit from a comparison of overall cartridge dimensions as the differences in pistol frames to keep things apples to apples.

@LookAtYou
Glock 29!
https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g29-sf
10+1 with optional 15 round magazines. 3.78" barrel.
The 40sw is certainly not as capable as the 10mm.
And the 10mm is not as capable as the 41mag.

They are all good rounds but can fill different purposes.

LookAtYou said:

What 10mm gun gives you 13+1, at or under a 4" barrel?

Click to expand...

this one.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/smith-wesson-mp-m2-0-10mm-review/

lookatyou, you have some weird obsession with the 40. you look at numbers and it appears magical to you. But the numbers don't matter if the target can't tell the difference between a 40 and a 9 and a 45 and a 357 and a 380.

Guess what. human targets can't tell the difference between these rounds. Results from the real world demonstrate that. look at Ellifritz's data. all those rounds have the same performance.

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power



bottom line; your opinion means nothing in light of real-world data.

Imma make some popcorn on the stove for this thread!

I'll give the OP this...at least he started this thread with "My Opinion..."!

Expansion characteristics are design traits. This means that not all hollowpoint ammunition acts the same way. Some will expand at lower velocities, some higher for instance. Therefore you can't generalize this too much by saying things like "often doesn't expand, until you reach like a 4.5"+ barrel".

Sheer size of the round DOES make a difference, but not necessarly the way people may think it does. The difference in tissue damage for round nose, FMJ between varying calibers is really not all that much because of tissue elasticity. Change that to a flat tip bullet and tissue damage becomes more significant between calibers. It can, however, make a significant difference in penetration because the reduction on cross-sectional area can lead to better penetration characteristics through some materials.

Differences in capacity due to caliber differences can make a significant impact, especially when you consider modern ammunition designs have significantly better performance in smaller calibers these days than they did just a few decades ago. Many years ago, when the 9mm first started becoming very popular in the United States, higher capacity pretty much worked to offset the lower performance characteristics of the smaller caliber in comparison to other popular larger caliber rounds of the time.

And finally, which round is "ideal" is as much a personal thing as it is an objective performance thing. Some people just cannot easily handle some cartridges and the firearms designed around them compared to others. I can't think of many, if any at all, that my wife could shoot effectively in the .40 caliber cartridge, either because it would present overly difficult issues for her or she simply wouldn't enjoy shooting it.

What one considers "ideal" in calibers will legitimately vary from one person to another for many reasons because of factors such as these.