Red Dot vs Tight Group in .32 Auto

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SlimReaper67

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Hello all..I just started reloading for the .32 and had some questions on case size and seating depth related to pressure. I'm using 78gn round nose bullets with a rather blunt profile. This requires them to be seated to .924" in order to chamber in my guns (both a Beretta 81 and FEG AP7.65). That seating depth is quite a bit deeper than load data. I first used some red dot powder, starting at 1.5gn and working up to 2gn. All rounds have cratered primers, which I take to mean the case pressure is too high. Red dot takes up a lot of case room, but tight group is nearly 2x as dense, and I was wondering if it would be better suited to my load dimensions. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
Cratered?

I'll bet pressure is a little low and those hammered guns put a wallop on primers for sure-fire ignition.

I own Beretta 81's too but have not reloaded for it. I bought a bunch of .32 when it was cheap.
 
SlimReaper67 said:
Hello all..I just started reloading for the .32 and had some questions on case size and seating depth related to pressure. I'm using 78gn round nose bullets with a rather blunt profile. This requires them to be seated to .924" in order to chamber in my guns (both a Beretta 81 and FEG AP7.65). That seating depth is quite a bit deeper than load data. I first used some red dot powder, starting at 1.5gn and working up to 2gn. All rounds have cratered primers, which I take to mean the case pressure is too high. Red dot takes up a lot of case room, but tight group is nearly 2x as dense, and I was wondering if it would be better suited to my load dimensions. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Catered primers always means you have flow into the firing pin hole in the receiver. Some primers are softer and show signs much earlier which is good for load development. Knowing that your seating depth is already deeper than the book lists means pressure is already higher. I like tightgroup unlike many, but based on saftey you need to start at minimum and look for signs.
 
AJC1 said:
Catered primers always means you have flow into the firing pin hole in the receiver. Some primers are softer and show signs much earlier which is good for load development. Knowing that your seating depth is already deeper than the book lists means pressure is already higher. I like tightgroup unlike many, but based on saftey you need to start at minimum and look for signs.
Click to expand...

I see. (Re: cratering)

Yes, Titegroup gets weird (dangerous) in small spaces like that based on my messing around with .25 acp and .38 Colt short. It seems to create more pressure exponentially or similar. Not a powder for loading to max in little cases IMO.

I don't know anything about Red Dot, sorry.
 
Shivahasagun said:
Cratered?

I'll bet pressure is a little low and those hammered guns put a wallop on primers for sure-fire ignition.

I own Beretta 81's too but have not reloaded for it. I bought a bunch of .32 when it was cheap.
Click to expand...
 

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The 2.0 gr. Red Dot load is not excessive , there are a few other reasons to see a crater around a primer . I double checked in the Lyman 50th manual and 2.1 grs Red Dot is the maximum load .
There is nothing wrong with using the Red Dot powder , it takes up any extra room and even can be compress a little ...it does Red Dot no harm and many times in handguns I find it to give the best accuracy . HP-38 and 700X are also good powders for the 32 auto .
But I like Red Dot because it is hard to double charge it !
When I can't get Bullseye ...Red Dot , HP-38 and 700X are my go to's .
Gary
 
Kp321 said:
From the picture, the primers have flowed into an oversized firing pin hole. Not excessive pressure as the primer edges are still rounded.
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Savage bolt actions are notorious for primer flow due to poor clearances. Many have the bolt bushed to tighten them up and the flow is eliminated.
 
Kp321 said:
From the picture, the primers have flowed into an oversized firing pin hole. Not excessive pressure as the primer edges are still rounded.
Click to expand...
I’m seeing the same thing. It also looks from the smearing of the primer brass like extraction may be starting while pressure is still a little high. It might not be a bad idea to have the recoil springs checked for proper length/tension. I’m not saying anything absolutely, just suggesting it couldn’t hurt. Fwiw I think the load is fine. I don’t see any signs of excessive pressure. Then again, reading primers for pressure signs is slightly less accurate than reading tea leaves for stock quotes.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Here's a better pic. The loads at the top are starting and work up as you go down (2 rows of each load). The very bottom left round is factory, and looks noticeably different the other ones. Factory ammo was federal. My brass and primers used for loading are also federal.
 

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Beretta firearms (pistols) have chamfered firing pin holes. That’s NOT cratered primers.

Those are NORMAL primers fired in a Beretta!
Both my M81 .32acp, and M85 .380acp do that! Also, a Taurus PT99 (Beretta M92 clone) also did that.

Either powder will perform well in .32acp. The TiteGroup will meter more consistent but won’t necessarily shoot better.
I shoot a home cast version of that same bullet.
Completely wore out a Beretta TomCat back in the ‘90’s shooting the Lyman 78gr RN over 1.8gr of Bullseye.
Just enough to cycle the action and shoot accurately.
After all, it IS just a .32!...
But it’s one of my favorite rounds!
 
GooseGestapo said:
Beretta firearms (pistols) have chamfered firing pin holes. That’s NOT cratered primers.

Those are NORMAL primers fired in a Beretta!
Both my M81 .32acp, and M85 .380acp do that! Also, a Taurus PT99 (Beretta M92 clone) also did that.

Either powder will perform well in .32acp. The TiteGroup will meter more consistent but won’t necessarily shoot better.
I shoot a home cast version of that same bullet.
Completely wore out a Beretta TomCat back in the ‘90’s shooting the Lyman 78gr RN over 1.8gr of Bullseye.
Just enough to cycle the action and shoot accurately.
After all, it IS just a .32!...
But it’s one of my favorite rounds!
Click to expand...
Did they do that even with factory ammo?
 
rfwobbly said:
I'll second that. RedDot is about the right burn rate, but is far too coarse to allow accurate metering in the tiny load range that 32 Auto requires.

For bullets, try the coated polymer coated 78gr RN from T&B... https://tbbullets.com/32acp-78gr-rn-polymer-coated/

View attachment 1101736
Click to expand...
So that's basically the exact bullet profile I'm using now at .312", the blunt nose catches where the barrel starts and prevents it from being chambered. I ordered a .309 Lee bullet sizing die, should be here tomorrow. I'll try that (as is recommended in the Lyman manual) and post back with results.
 
For small cases with a narrow spread between min and max I like powders that meter well in my powder measure, Accurate #2 comes to mind.
 
I made up a 8" stub tube barrel in 32 ACP for my contender. Very fun gun to shoot. I have burned quite a few rounds through it.

I played around with a few powders including Promo (bulk version of Red Dot) and settled on TiteGroup. At the small charges involved, my powder measure drops TiteGroup with much lower percent variations than Promo. In a 32 ACP sized case, I am happy with the high density of TiteGroup.
 
Well I got it all figured out now. After sizing bullets down to .309", loading at the proper oal, and priming on press; my rounds look much better. Seems like 2.2gn of red dot is most accurate. Thanks for all the replies!
 
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