A Carbine Dilemma

Status
Not open for further replies.
Beyrouth

Beyrouth

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2022
Messages
18
Hello,
I’m new to the forum so please forgo any protocols I may break.
I don’t want to take too much of your time so I’ll just cut straight to the chase.
I’ve been given the choice between a Colt US Military issued M4A1 or M16A1 that’s had its barrel shortened to match the length of the M4 (Shortened by the US Special Forces in Iraq for CQB).
They’re both full auto (a feature I’ll probably never use) and brand new in the box. I’m having a hard time deciding which one to choose. Honestly leaning more towards the M16 but would like your opinions and pros + cons.

Cheers
 
Electrod47 said:
Brand new "In the Box" Full Auto's and your never going to fire them Full Auto? and you want us to tell you what to do???
Click to expand...
Poor choice of words lol
I’ll scarcely use is more like it. Bullets are expensive
 
The M4 will give you more options for optics, and just more options all around.

With the carry handle on the M16, you're stuck with basically what you have. If you wanted to add an optic later, there are some options, but youre limited.
 
Pick the shortened M16. That buttstock is really hardy.

If you're law enforcement you might want the M4 because it's easier to mount in vehicle...
 
General Geoff said:
Need more info to make a reasonable choice. Who is giving it to you and for what purpose? Are you a SOT? In law enforcement? AFAIK there are no fully transferable NFA registered M4s on the market, so we need more info.
Click to expand...

I don’t live primarily in the States anymore, it’s being given to me specifically as a CQB instrument. Our organisation acquired them from the US military, they were originally designated for Iraq in 2015. Anyways a bit off topic there.
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
Welcome to the group!

I'd go with the M4 variant in your situation, assuming both rifles are in the same condition.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dave
I’ve uploaded a photo of the M4 and will upload the M16 in a couple of days. They weigh the same believe it or not but the M16 has more “heft” to it. I appreciate all the advice. We don’t have anything fancy like Special Operators over here, and we’ve been doing CQB/CQC for a little over 5 years which is nothing compared to the two+ decades the Green Berets have. But we live we learn.
Cheers
 

Attachments

  • 44628510-EAFC-4FA0-8038-7FFF62A07A81.jpeg
    44628510-EAFC-4FA0-8038-7FFF62A07A81.jpeg
    139.5 KB · Views: 70
  • DEDE16F9-6AF1-4A67-AC9B-791AA08591D9.jpeg
    DEDE16F9-6AF1-4A67-AC9B-791AA08591D9.jpeg
    46.7 KB · Views: 70
I’m from Beirut and the US has never occupied us. I’ve also lived in Texas for 18 years so I consider myself an American as well. I appreciate everyone chiming it, seems like the M4 is the clear winner. Will ultimately decide after zero’ing and testing at the range
 
Ridiculous and petty politics aside, since we are here for firearms and not myopic world views, I would choose the M4.
We have made changes for a reason.
(Though my nostalgia would love a real, 20”, M16.:))

I would be interested in hearing the range report and which one you’ve chosen, if possible.

Godspeed to you, and your crew.:thumbup:
 
Swampman said:
An M16 A1 is going to have a 1/12" inch twist barrel that'll be inaccurate with SS109 type projectiles or anything much longer than M193 ball.

The M4 should be good even with M856 tracer or 77 grain HPBT's.
Click to expand...

I have seen some 1-12 twist barrels do just fine with 55 grain bullets and some even do fine with 62 grain bullets. Though a 1-9 twist will definitely be better for 62 grain M855/M855A1 ammo.

For any use where you will be shooting the 64grain M856 tracer rounds, you will definitely want the 1-7 twist of the M4. The only reason the US Military went with the 1-7 twist is the fact that the longer M856 trader rounds would not properly stabilize out of a 1-9 twist in certain climates.

So for the OP, if you will be using M855 FMJ and M856 tracers, then you definitely want to go with the M4 over a M16A1.
 
:thumbup::thumbup:
Demi-human said:
Ridiculous and petty politics aside, since we are here for firearms and not myopic world views, I would choose the M4.
We have made changes for a reason.
(Though my nostalgia would love a real, 20”, M16.:))

I would be interested in hearing the range report and which one you’ve chosen, if possible.

Godspeed to you, and your crew.:thumbup:
Click to expand...
I agree with you, especially when factoring nostalgia hehe. I will give my full assessment when I go to the range. In reality we will only engage targets from the 0-80 yard mark, our training has taught us that we have to dictate the parameters and perimeter, anything beyond 100 yards will be a no go for us. Then again not everything goes to plan and will be handy to have your rifle hit targets efficiently from 100-300 yards.
Appreciate everyone, almost everyone, keeping it civil. I know topics like this can get sensitive sometimes. Cheers to all :thumbup:
 
Beyrouth said:
In reality we will only engage targets from the 0-80 yard mark, our training has taught us that we have to dictate the parameters and perimeter, anything beyond 100 yards will be a no go for us.
Click to expand...
Absolutely the M4 then. The ability to mount a red dot for those conditions would be invaluable. I find mine to be much quicker. As well, a low power scope enables finer aiming in dense environments. A illuminated low power variable optic being the greatest, I think.

While tracers won’t be a thing for you, the added versatility of the seven twist barrel increases your ammunition options, should you be allowed to choose your own.

(My own 75 grn match bullets were impressive when I found a few had ricocheted through a birch thicket. I imagine some of the newer, heavier, factory rifle loads to be equally effective.)

In addition, rails are nice. Any rifle can be changed around, but the one with rails already makes it easier. Lights are a necessity here, as we enter into the fifteen hours of night season.
 
Demi-human said:
Absolutely the M4 then. The ability to mount a red dot for those conditions would be invaluable. I find mine to be much quicker. As well, a low power scope enables finer aiming in dense environments. A illuminated low power variable optic being the greatest, I think.

While tracers won’t be a thing for you, the added versatility of the seven twist barrel increases your ammunition options, should you be allowed to choose your own.

(My own 75 grn match bullets were impressive when I found a few had ricocheted through a birch thicket. I imagine some of the newer, heavier, factory rifle loads to be equally effective.)

In addition, rails are nice. Any rifle can be changed around, but the one with rails already makes it easier. Lights are a necessity here, as we enter into the fifteen hours of night season.
Click to expand...
Excellent response. I wholeheartedly agree however the M16’s that are available have already been modified by US sf, no red dots or anything like that but they’ve added rails on them. So it will be easy to modify it further, when I test them I’ll take photos of the M16’s because I’m sure some people are scratching heads as to how it’s been modified by the sf. All of our 5.56 ammunition are 55 grains. I definitely agree that a LPVO is the best option alongside perhaps a canted reflex red dot, and I’ll definitely need to install lights, mainly to disorient the target more than use of visibility
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Gridley
  • Locked
Help me choose a CQ rifle: Tavor X95, LMT LM8, or Hybrid DD/LMT
Replies
20
Views
1K
SCC
S
tjlis2004
  • Locked
New Colt AR15-A4 Poor Build Qaulity or Normal and safe to shoot?
2
Replies
45
Views
5K
DustyGmt
DustyGmt
D
  • Locked
Kind of an insecure night sight dilemma/question
Replies
10
Views
714
Quintin Likely
Q
Y
  • Locked
Need advice for Parents...
2
Replies
26
Views
798
Dirtpile
D
N
  • Locked
Aimpoint vs. ACOG for AR-15
2 3
Replies
66
Views
9K
Al Thompson
A
Back
Top