Some unreal AK accuracy.

Well I never thought a 94AE could do 1 to 1.5 moa until I did it.
So never say never.

...

David Hoback said:

One big reason is the ammunition. The 7.62x39 is just not a very accurate round. Short, FAT bullets aren’t exactly One Hole prominent.

Click to expand...

To the contrary, 30 calibers using 125 grain bullets are very popular in short range bench rest competition because they cut a larger hole in the target so they give a scoring advantage.

https://www.6mmbr.com/30br.html

Hmmm. Barska scope, Wolf ammo. How many times did he film that? Gunis in a Vise. It could happen. Once maybe. I had a Saiga that was under 3 MOA with better ammo. I have had AR that were consistently 3/4 MOA. I suspect possibly some fudging in this video, after all it is an ad. But even if totally legit it is not impressive. I am not going to buy one unless I was an AK fanboy. I had many of them around 20-30 years ago. When ARs became available and legal for deer I switched over and won't look back. But I can see that fanboys will get pretty excited and claim that AK's are all that accurate.
Most of us have seen all those dodgy videos and miracle shots.

Thanks for sharing the video, I will be looking into that company more because if that is anywhere near typical of their rifles I'll probably buy one. It would go great with my 7.62x39 AR.

This is how my AR shoots with wolf 124 grain hp's



and with handloaded nosler accubonds

David Hoback said:

Short, FAT bullets aren’t exactly One Hole prominent.

Click to expand...

30BR does pretty amazing things - even by the most elite standards - in short range benchrest with 110-125grn flat base bullets. It’s not the “short, fat bullets” which give the x39 accuracy issues.

As I have several brands of 7.62x39mm Wolf ,Rumanian ,Czech ,even Lapua . Makes ME wonder what groups I could produce with a couple of vintage AK's and SK's . Admittedly I'm skeptical about Wolf ammo ,only because I've used it before and the phrase Pray & Spray came from somewhere didn't it !. I had Horrible results using their .45 Acp out of My Griffon as well as My Commander ,keyholed out of Both guns .

However I've Never papered any of My 7.62x39's and all are Iron sight . Might be fun just the same to say and have targets to show I did whatever results present themselves . I'll even break out shooting bag and rabbit ears ,as I no longer have a front Rifle rest .

I thought this Yugo kit build under folder was pretty accurate. 10rds, standing offhand…at 100yds. This was using Golden Tiger steel case, which I always found accurate.

David Hoback said:

One big reason is the ammunition. The 7.62x39 is just not a very accurate round. Short, FAT bullets aren’t exactly One Hole prominent.

Click to expand...

Ammo is a big reason many AKs are seen as inaccurate, but it has less to do with the design of the cartridge and much more to do with trash components and quality control designed to meet a price point found in most of the ammo available. There’s very little 7.62x39 ammo on the market designed for accuracy while there are a bunch of match ammo options for other calibers.

People will compare accuracy from $1.50/round .223 ammo to $0.25 7.62x39 and say “look, the AK did worse than the .223!”

The 7.62x39 is actually (well, sort of) the parent case of the .220 Russian which itself is the parent case for a whole bunch of high accuracy cartridges (both SAAMI and wildcat).



I have an AK (Bulgarian Arsenal) that consistently is 2 MOA or less with cheap bulk ammo like wolf. And by consistently, I mean every range trip, irons or red dot, different ammo types and batches, including fliers, for multiple years - not a “I did it once” kinda accuracy standard. Honesty it matches my AR for average accuracy if I’m using similar quality, cheap, bulk pack ammo.

That said, I really want to build an AK from the ground up for accuracy just to see what it could really do. Things like a high quality milled receiver with a barrel threaded into the receiver instead of pressed (of course high quality/accurate threading on both the receiver and barrel, similar to accuratizing a bolt gun). Then adding a match chambered barrel with a .308 bore so I can use good match bullets. Also planning on floating the barrel, but that creates other issues…

Every time I sit down to work on the design, I find there’s something else to do, but I do think it’s possible to build an AK that can get 1 MOA or better.

But then…
My home made, screw built amd65 liked that Golden Tiger, too. Again, 10rds standing, offhand at 100yds…

Ammo makes a big difference in how most things shoot, and the AK is no different. I always had the best luck with my 7.62x39 AK's with the old Barnaul 125 grain SP's. They have a bullet that has a fully jacketed base and looks very much like a Sierra Game King.

Wolf for me, has always been real hit or miss, and after pulling a few bullets in different lots, I think I understand why. Their QC seems to be (or at least was) kind of all over the place. They all had a typical "rolled crimp" base, and some had lead smears across the base, where others were nice and clean as you would expect. Guess which ones didnt shoot too great?

I shot this at 200 yards with my old, cheap, nothing special, SAR1 using its slightly canted iron sights. The three-round group at the bottom was off a rest to confirm zero, the other, was shot from a cross legged sitting position and basically as fast as the sights came back on target.

Ammo, of all things, was Wolf 154 grain SP's, with that same roll crimped base. The couple I pulled were nice and clean though.



This was shot offhand at 100 with my Krebs AK103K with an Aimpoint mounted on an Ultimak rail. Forget the ammo I was using, but was likely Barnaul.



Ive had cheap and more expensive AK's, and they all shot pretty much the same. The only ones that didnt shoot well, and/or were problematical, were a couple of US guns assembled from kits.

Ive always found the gin assembled in the countries that issue them to be the better bet, and all of those have been good shooters. Any problems, with things like the SAR's, WASR's, etc, were due to the crappy US compliance parts. Once those were replaced, the guns were fine.

David Hoback said:

The 7.62x39 is just not a very accurate round. Short, FAT bullets aren’t exactly One Hole prominent.

Click to expand...

Is your experience based on factory ammo or handloads? I don't have an AK, but do have several AR's chambered in 7.62x39 and using handloads they are about as accurate as most shooters I know are capable of within 200 yards, maybe 250. A couple are easily 1 moa or less at 100 yards.

I ceased using steel cased ammo for any chambering a few years ago after trying the Wolf steel cased 6.5 Grendel ammo and found it to be all over the place accuracy wise, as opposed to sub moa accuracy out of the same gun with factory loads, even better with handloads. I do stick to 20 round or less mags so they will feed well in an AR. Even at that not all brands are equal and its taken more time finding reliable mags for the 7.62x39 in my ARs than any other chambering.

I think the 7.62x39 gets an unfair rap as an inaccurate round in general because most people are shooting steel cased ammo and don't take the time to work up good handloads for it, plus almost all of it gets shot out of AK variants. The bullet shape is definitely not as aerodynamic as some other loads though and there are not a lot of choices in weight either which doesn't help. Your mileage may vary.

Its a combination of the barrel, the ammunition, and the gun its attached too. Garbage ammo won't shoot well in a good barrel, and neither will good ammo shoot well in a bad barrel. I've had 4 different 7.62x39 AR barrels. Two of them (same brand) will shoot the groups I posted above. The other two were like 2-3 moa with the same ammo. Lots of people report MOA accuracy with steel case in ruger americans and CZ's, so we know its not the ammunitions fault.

That is an impressive group, and definitely not representative of what the AK type rifles are typical of doing. What is this AK called? The blind squirrel?

I had a truly accurate RAS47 a few years ago. With a side mount and a rather generic simmon 4x scope it would print under 2 inch 5-shot group multiple holes touching. BUT the bolt, carrier, and trunnion all developed terrible peening in just a few hundred rounds and my son preferred to mag dump it with irons. It went back to Century who replaced all the parts under warranty and was promptly traded for a RomyG that happily chugs along with canted sights and pieplate groups. So I know somewhere in central Alabama there is a really accurate AK. I suspect the new owner hasn't a clue.

Back in the 90s, Lapua ammunition had the reputation of being the best 7.62x39mm on the market, and my then-wife loved it in her SKS (though she shot far more steel-case due to the cost difference, even back then). I haven’t seen any Lapua 7.62x39 at gun stores or gun shows in many years, though. Back when I owned an AK in the early 2000s, I tried hard to find some and wasn’t able to.

benEzra said:

Back in the 90s, Lapua ammunition had the reputation of being the best 7.62x39mm on the market, and my then-wife loved it in her SKS (though she shot far more steel-case due to the cost difference, even back then). I haven’t seen any Lapua 7.62x39 at gun stores or gun shows in many years, though. Back when I owned an AK in the early 2000s, I tried hard to find some and wasn’t able to.

Click to expand...

Ive had very good results with Lapua and S&B brass cased X39. Indeed, even with cheap Wolf and Tul, Ive never had an AK which couldn't consistently hit a man-sized torso at 100YD- and thats really the only standard that matters with an AK anyway.
"Perfect is the enemy of good enough," after all.

Hmm, AK defenders seem to fall into my AK is really accurate and as accurate as an AR. Or accuracy doesn't matter.
I don't believe either one. It may be true for you. As a combat vet .hunter and competition shooter and experienced with several variations of AK and SKS I know better.
I liked playing with them but I moved onto rifles that did what I want. I don't see much point in trying to make something do what it isn't designed for.

I have been shooting, scoping , AK semi auto rifles for about 25 years. My first rifle purchase was an SLR95 I believe. Since then I have converted a few Saigas, scoped them with American, Russian scopes, and red dots like the Aimpoint micro T1 and the Russian Kobra. With the SLR and open sights you could routinely put 3 shots into less than 3" groups at 100 yds. I think it was the most accurate 7.62X39 I have had. There was a life sized buffalo silhouette placed at some 500 yds. or so. I used to enjoy sitting cross legged, moving the AK rear sight up and banging away on that thing. It never punched through and I could go pick up bullets with their nose curled back.
Now I have a SLR 107 with two optjc setups. Kobra, and a Kvar mount with a 2X7 scope. I can mount either one, and ring a 8" gong at 200 yds, three shots consecutive. Wolf Ammo. Thjs is a keeper. I have had good luck with a Saiga 308, 16" and a Vepr 308 21" for accuracy as well. Sub 4" three shots at 220 yds. were acheivable consistently. Then there were a bunch of other AKs in the 3 moa range. But if it wont hold under 4" at 110 yds. it is not a keeper. Are ARs more accurate? Generally yes. Are AKs accurate enough?
One thing: The hard charging nature of the action, ergos, balance all make for a carbine that is difficult to shoot groups with.

I think the AK's primary disadvantage is its sights. Nothing really wrong with them, and I actually prefer them over the "peep" type for quick, reactive type shooting, but they arent the "target" type sights the AR's and some others have.

Put a properly mounted red dot on them, and I think youll find they shoot very much like your AR's do with the same sort of set up.

Having listened to all the usual complaints about the AK's accuracy and ergonomics over the years, I always figured that if someone couldn't shoot one well, they likely couldn't shoot most other things well either.