Some unreal AK accuracy.

robin banks said:

VC wanted to get close so artillery fire could not be called on them. torso hits with an AK or SKS can be made near 200 yds

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Partly true. The AR was lethal and accurate at a far greater range. From a bench rest you might get a torso hit at 200 yards. They relied on volume of fire
We did also. The past 50 years has proven everything that I have said. Obviously you armchair commandos have no interest in objectivity and totally discount real world results and experience. This is useless arguing with internet experts.

I get about the same accuracy out of my old WASR10 as long as I shot it from a cradle rest.
Most say they are not accurate because they shoot them offhand, then they are pairing their inaccuracy with the gun & making it more. Most of the problem for me is the short stock, it's hard to get comfortable with it because of having to pull my face back from the scope.

d2wing said:

Partly true. The AR was lethal and accurate at a far greater range. From a bench rest you might get a torso hit at 200 yards. They relied on volume of fire
We did also. The past 50 years has proven everything that I have said. Obviously you armchair commandos have no interest in objectivity and totally discount real world results and experience. This is useless arguing with internet experts.

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past 50 years have proven what rifle you have means nothing. ask soldiers who are being attacked by missiles drones GPS guided arty attack copters tanks jets submarine launched missiles if having a rifle that shoots a group 2 inches smaller then the Russians rifles would make a difference

David Hoback said:

Of course not. I didn’t say “never”..and I’m careful not to use that when I’m speaking. There are always exceptions. But it about what is expected.. I can expect that every AR I build will deliver around 1MOA with good ammunition. It’s not difficult at all, to build ARs that deliver this accuracy. But an AK? Quite challenging. One big reason is the ammunition. The 7.62x39 is just not a very accurate round. Short, FAT bullets aren’t exactly One Hole prominent.

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The grave has it otherwise.

AK Hunter said:

I get about the same accuracy out of my old WASR10 as long as I shot it from a cradle rest.
Most say they are not accurate because they shoot them offhand, then they are pairing their inaccuracy with the gun & making it more. Most of the problem for me is the short stock, it's hard to get comfortable with it because of having to pull my face back from the scope.

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The problem isnt that the stock is too short, its that your scope is mounted to far to the rear.

A proper cheek weld on the AK is similar to that of the AR's, head low and forward, "nose to the charging handle", but in this case, its "nose along the top cover". Your cheek weld is on the "wrist" of the stock, not the comb.

If you shoulder the gun that way, the stock isnt "short".

The AK rifle is what it is. If someone can spend time accurizing one, more power to them. I just don't find them to be very interesting guns, but I can understand why some people like them. My 7.62x39 chambered ARs are more accurate than any AK I've ever shot or have seen anyone at the range shoot. Past 300 yards I will pick a different chambering for accuracy. Tweaking several mags to run the round well was the only obstacle I've ever encountered.

I've not looked seriously into getting an ARAK, but I wonder if anyone on here has and what accuracy they found with it. Also, why haven't those become more popular? I assume its because most people shooting that round just prefer the AK rifle.

robin banks said:

past 50 years have proven what rifle you have means nothing. ask soldiers who are being attacked by missiles drones GPS guided arty attack copters tanks jets submarine launched missiles if having a rifle that shoots a group 2 inches smaller then the Russians rifles would make a difference

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Boy, as a combat veteran I can tell you that it is very important. Just how dumb a statement is that. Gee I would rather be issued a less lethal, inaccurate rifle when my life depends on it. What do you think people do in a gunfight. That's even dumber than the torso hits ar 200 yards. Where do you people come from. Never mind. I am done with AK fans.

Telekinesis said:

I have an AK (Bulgarian Arsenal) that consistently is 2 MOA or less with cheap bulk ammo like wolf.

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That makes two of us! Don't know if the milled receiver has anything to do with it.

David Hoback said:

I’m always apprehensive of Wolf ammo.. especially in 7.62x39. When people post tiny little groups, I shrug my shoulders & roll my eyes. Like I said… quite the amount of “Big Fish” stories in Firearms! Been doing this long enough, and also being an Instructor, I’ve heard & seen quite a few Tall Tales! No, I don’t general believe Forum Talk.

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You raise a valid point about being suspicious of a lot of what you read on a forum, but after a few years you come to realize that there are people here that really are experts. ( I am not in that group ) If you pick any subject about firearms that you consider yourself very knowledgeable about...... I will guarantee there is someone here that has forgotten more than you ( or I ) will ever know about that subject.

trackskippy said:

I think the AK's primary disadvantage is its sights. Nothing really wrong with them, and I actually prefer them over the "peep" type for quick, reactive type shooting, but they arent the "target" type sights the AR's and some others have.

Put a properly mounted red dot on them, and I think youll find they shoot very much like your AR's do with the same sort of set up.

Having listened to all the usual complaints about the AK's accuracy and ergonomics over the years, I always figured that if someone couldn't shoot one well, they likely couldn't shoot most other things well either.

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I think that you have been proven wrong thousands of times on gun ranges every where as well as in combat. But you seem determined to be ignorant. I challenge you to a shooting match at my range. I already have posted sub MOA AR groups.

Yup, Im just an ignorant so and so who seems to be able to shoot an AK somewhat fairly well, while you for some reason cant, and thats somehow my fault.

What? No gauntlet?

Save us some gas, post up a couple of your M14/M1A or AR targets shot at 200 yards, shot from a cross legged sitting position, or however you shoot that position, shot a steady cadence. Think HP rapid fire strings.

I better see some MOA groups too!

Ignition Override said:

Illinoisburt:

It’s too bad that you had not (first) spent time on AKfiles before you bought the Century-Designed RAS “AKM”. Many of the AKfiles’ regular members are quite seasoned builders.

The substandard quality of steel used by Century in their AKMs has been quite well known for years. Their objective is maximum production costs.

I’m pretty sure that Rob Ski discovered this in one of his tests on Youtube, where he limits barrel temp, checks headspace regularly,
as he Also analyzes and Shows us the accumulated wear on bolt lugs, channels, shoulders at his standard ‘ammo count’ intervals- up to 5,000 rds. total .

AKMs which are — imported— by Century , in stark contrast to their US-made “creations” , have high quality steel components, as you probably read about later.

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This was simply an issue at the time that the century was pretty and my son at 18 preferred how it looked plus the salesman telling him it was better to get the new gun with a warranty rather than a parts gun with obviously mismatched furniture and canted sights. Since it was a gift for him that's the route it went. The durability issues were obvious less than a month later. The first 800 or so rounds had seriously worn the gun which was vastly different from my prior experience with mak90. Cases of corrosive Chinese ammo could hardly tell it was fired when sold.

Telekinesis said:

I have an AK (Bulgarian Arsenal) that consistently is 2 MOA or less with cheap bulk ammo like wolf. And by consistently, I mean every range trip

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I would be tickled with an AK with 2 moa or less mechanical accuracy with wolf ammo and can hold a consistent POI in different weather conditions. In my hands that will probably let me shoot about 4 moa groups with a red dot from improvised field rest, which is about as well as I can do with any rifle, even one that I can shoot .75 moa from the bench. I am not particularly interested in shooting an AK or AR from the bench, I just need enough mechanical accuracy to make it fun to run around and plink from field positions.

trackskippy said:

The problem isnt that the stock is too short, its that your scope is mounted to far to the rear.

A proper cheek weld on the AK is similar to that of the AR's, head low and forward, "nose to the charging handle", but in this case, its "nose along the top cover". Your cheek weld is on the "wrist" of the stock, not the comb.

If you shoulder the gun that way, the stock isnt "short".

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That is interesting. The AK's I've held always feel like they have too high of a comb height. I'll have to try getting my cheek forward in the stock dip.

The comb isnt where your cheek should be when youre shooting an AK. If it is, thats why the stocks feel short to a lot of people. Youre basically trying to shoot it like an AR pistol using only the tube. You want your head down, with your cheek on the "wrist" of the stock, and your nose at, or along the top cover.

I think youll find that when you quickly shoulder the gun with that cheek weld, youll find the gun shoulders very naturally, and the iron sights are very close to being aligned and need little if any adjustment on your part.

If you measure the LOP on most of the foreign guns, youll find its right around 12.5-13" or so, and the same as things like the M16/M16A1, m1 and M14, etc.

I'm quite tall so that short of a LOP feels unnatural to me, like my right hand is scrunched up into my chest and puts my wrist into an unnatural angle. I set all my rifles up to be about 14-14.5 LOP

AK Hunter said:

I get about the same accuracy out of my old WASR10 as long as I shot it from a cradle rest.
Most say they are not accurate because they shoot them offhand, then they are pairing their inaccuracy with the gun & making it more. Most of the problem for me is the short stock, it's hard to get comfortable with it because of having to pull my face back from the scope.

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That’s one helluva set up…

AK Hunter said:

I get about the same accuracy out of my old WASR10 as long as I shot it from a cradle rest.
Most say they are not accurate because they shoot them offhand, then they are pairing their inaccuracy with the gun & making it more. Most of the problem for me is the short stock, it's hard to get comfortable with it because of having to pull my face back from the scope.

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Nice rig. Have you tried a forward offset scope mount? That might fix the eye relief problem.

citizenconn said:

Nice rig. Have you tried a forward offset scope mount? That might fix the eye relief problem.

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Are you talking about a cantilever scope mount? I have tried them but it puts the scope up too high I can barely see through it as is.

AK Hunter said:

Are you talking about a cantilever scope mount? I have tried them but it puts the scope up too high I can barely see through it as is.

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They make some fairly low scope rings that are offset forward similar to these.

David Hoback said:

You would fair better with a more forward side mount rail, like the MI. Your setup has the scope way too far back. And also a smaller overall scope. What is the power on that? I only have a 2.5-10 on my AR. Most people use even less.

Something like this is FAR lower than what’s on there. You actually have one of much higher mounts.
https://www.combathunting.com/AK_Side_Optic_Mount_UTG_ACCU_SYNC_QR_AK_Side_Mount_Universal.html

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Those little scopes are fine for shooting 100 or 200 yds but 400 or farther it just won't do. Yes it will shoot that far if you can see where it hits & adjust it to hit where you want.

AK Hunter said:

Those little scopes are fine for shooting 100 or 200 yds but 400 or farther it just won't do. Yes it will shoot that far...

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Assuming that your muzzle blast doesn't crack the objective lens...

AK Hunter said:

Those little scopes are fine for shooting 100 or 200 yds but 400 or farther it just won't do. Yes it will shoot that far if you can see where it hits & adjust it to hit where you want.

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In my experience, the reticle has a lot more to do with how good a scope is for longer distance shooting than the magnification, as well as knowing the DOPE for your chambering. I guess it also depends on if you are using it for hunting or target shooting steel versus groups on paper.

For the first 6.5 Creedmoor target AR rig I put together for long distance shooting several years ago, the only scope I had to put on it at the time was a Nikon Black 1-6x. Me and my shooting partner were able to ring 2 MOA steel at 1000 yards multiple times in a row pretty quickly with it with by knowing the correct DOPE for his handloads.

Would I shoot it over 500 yards with that scope deer hunting? No, not even close. I have a number of scopes with magnification from 16-25x, but higher magnification can often be more of a curse than a blessing, to a point. I respect that your experiences may be different than mine.

I'll agree that AK irons are not great for accuracy, any red dot or optic is a great upgrade.
My first AK was a new WASR in 2013. Mediocre accuracy wirh commercial steel, PPU or Herters brass, and surplus Yugo m67. Does shoot the 154 gr. bullets better but that's only available from Tula which I don't like.
I always thought it was the chrome lined barrel skewing my accuracy but two years later I bought a Draco pistol, that shot any 123 gr. load just fine. Then picked up an AK63DS uf with a Green Mtn barrel. That's my best shooter, and as good as my PSA 7.62x39 AR.
A well built AK van be just as accurate, but finding a well built AK is a bit harder than an AR. To me, ARs are like Legos, if your parts are good enough it doesn't take a master gunsmith to build one. AKs are old school, and mediocre skills make for a mediocre rifle.