How to load coated cast bullets?

Smaug said:

Are they loaded like waxed cast bullets or jacketed?

I'm guessing cast, as they don't say different, but they advertise how great the coating is, which makes me wonder if they can be pushed a bit harder...

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If you mean HiTek coating, then load like cast but you can safely push them to low range jacketed velocities in my experience. Work up as usual and note leading or pressure signs. I safely use Acme coated bullets in .45acp, .44mag, and 9mm with no leading or other problems. You will need to carefully set case belling to avoid shaving the coating.

Maybe useful information here:

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/3/7/coated-bullets-the-future-of-lead-bullets-for-handloaders/

Coated cast bullets are soft , the coating is simply a baked on paint ... paint adds no hardness.
You also want to use data for cast bullets , do not use data for jacketed bullets .
Not only should you use data for cast bullets but you should load them like cast bullets with conventional bullet lube . If you try to load them like jacketed bullets you will cut into or scrape the powder coating off in places ... load coated bullets like "Cowboy Bullets " .
Not all cast bullets are Hard Cast ... but all cast bullets are soft compared to a jacketed bullet .
Gary

Use data for cast. Take it easy on any crimp you use so you don't cut or scrape the coating. That said, cast data is generally quite anemic and most load data cuts off cast loads around the point they "think" it might lead. If you want to push cast (especially coated) harder, you usually can. Pay attention to any pressure signs or leading that crop up, although I have yet to be able to make any coated bullet lead. My buddy even loads them in a Tok, which moves pretty fast.

Smaug said:

… which makes me wonder if they can be pushed a bit harder...

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Well, yes and no. The basic issues of skating the bore, gas leakage due to poor fit, out of round shape, casting flaws like wrinkles, creases and bubbles are all still present but are masked by the coating. A waxed bullet you can look at and tell something is wrong, especially something like wrinkles and surface flaws; but you can’t just look at a cast bullet coated with some kind of epoxy, vinyl, etc and see a flaw which might cause other problems. And if pushed too fast for the alloy, the coating won’t prevent skating or tumbling. They are a mixed bag.

I've not seen any data showing they can't be loaded to maximum Sammi pressure. The bullet is coated lead so I use lead pressure information. I think you can get jacketed speed in a pistol no problem, but if you use jacketed data you will be over pressure. I make no claim in actual rifle calibers as I'm still doing homework on that, and pressure is significantly higher.

HiTek coating SEEMS to be pretty tough. Definitely more tough than paint.

What do you consider hard cast?
What is coated? Polymer coated or powder coated paint? There is a difference

gwpercle said:

Coated cast bullets are soft , the coating is simply a baked on paint ... paint adds no hardness.
You also want to use data for cast bullets , do not use data for jacketed bullets .
Not only should you use data for cast bullets but you should load them like cast bullets with conventional bullet lube . If you try to load them like jacketed bullets you will cut into or scrape the powder coating off in places ... load coated bullets like "Cowboy Bullets " .
Not all cast bullets are Hard Cast ... but all cast bullets are soft compared to a jacketed bullet .
Gary

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No they are not soft. Most commercial cast bullets are around 16 bhn. They the either conventional lube them or Polymer coat them. Plated bullets are softer lead
I supposed some cast their own super hard 22 bhn but that is pretty darn hard

Example MBC 9mm are 18 bhn, so are the coated ones

https://missouribullet.com/results.php?category=5&secondary=8

Rule3 said:

What do you consider hard cast?
What is coated? Polymer coated or powder coated paint? There is a difference

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It’s the “Miracle New-Shiny” thing again. Coated solves everything. I know it’s true because I read it on the internet and this guy on UTube did a really cool video.
Completely forgotten is the fact that a crappy bullet is still a crappy bullet and that doesn’t change just because it looks pretty.
There’s more to ballistics than whether or not it leads the bore or gets your fingers dirty.
Not really aimed at you Rule3, more to the “every bullet is the same” crowd. I think we’re probably on the same page: it depends on who made it and which alloy/alloys they used.

I’ve been loading Acme and Gallant coated bullets using cast data from Hodgden and Lyman. The single issue I’ve had was a bout of heavy leading in 30-30. I switched powders and the problems seem to have gone away. I do need to test some more to be sure. I am not pushing things very hard though. Maybe 1500 fps in 30-30 and 1400 in 357 Magnum. 9mm was under 1100. I treated them the same as the Hunter Supply uncoated bullets I tried.

Smaug said:

Well, I never said anything about a coating making a crappy bullet into a good bullet, nor that there's no more to ballistics that whether it leads the bore or gets fingers dirty.

Rule3: why are you getting condescending and trying to derail the thread? It is not about "how hard is hard" or "what kind of coating". You know what I'm talking about; the widely available bullets at around 14-16 BHN with HiTek (or similar) coating.

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From the manufacturer: “Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings is bringing cast bullets into the 21st century. The Hi-Tek Heat Set Supercoat was developed specifically for commercial bullet casters to provide individuals that reload with a cast bullet that didn't smoke and gum up reloading dies like a traditional wax lubed bullet. Properly applied the coating molecularly bonds to the lead, encasing the entire projectile in a protective shell that is self-lubricating. This proprietary coating contains no PTFE or Moly.”

It’s a lubricant. Load them as you would any other lubed bullet of the same hardness.

I don’t know if it has anything to do with the coating or not but I’ve gotten better accuracy with coated bullets. Given I have only tried a very small sample of uncoated cast bullets, take that with a grain of salt.

Coated cast bullets are just cast bullets with a thin coating used to prevent leading. They are cast bullets. Treat them like cast bullets.

Of course the manufacturer acts like it's some miracle cure. It's just your standard marketing...

Pushed a little harder? Sure, maybe, it depends... If done correctly you can push traditional cast bullets 2,000+ FPS. With traditional lubed bullets you can run into a variety of problems if the bullets are too small, the lube is too hard, the alloy is wrong for the application, etc. Coated bullets won't lead the bore even if the bullet is too small or alloy to hard or too soft. So there is some additional leeway with coated bullets, but if prepared correctly lubed bullets are just as good if not better. The long range accuracy guys still use traditional lubed bullets, at least that's what I've been told.

reddog81 said:

Coated cast bullets are just cast bullets with a thin coating used to prevent leading. They are cast bullets. Treat them like cast bullets.

Of course the manufacturer acts like it's some miracle cure. It's just your standard marketing...

Pushed a little harder? Sure, maybe, it depends... If done correctly you can push traditional cast bullets 2,000+ FPS. With traditional lubed bullets you can run into a variety of problems if the bullets are too small, the lube is too hard, the alloy is wrong for the application, etc. Coated bullets won't lead the bore even if the bullet is too small or alloy to hard or too soft. So there is some additional leeway with coated bullets, but if prepared correctly lubed bullets are just as good if not better. The long range accuracy guys still use traditional lubed bullets, at least that's what I've been told.

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Take some and blast them with a propane torch.

Smash them with a hammer.

My local caster over the past year and a half has started to use powder coating. His bullets are all around 12 BNH (with some exceptions). I really prefer the powder coated they’re just cleaner to handle on the bench while loading. The equipment stays way cleaner as well.

I haven’t had any problems with leading that I can tell. I’ve shot a number of loads through rifles and they were getting up there at 1700+ FPS and still did not notice leading problems. That was confirmed by running a Lewis Lead Remover (with the arbor fairly well expanded for a very tight fit with a new screen) through the rifles.

I still have a lot of uncoated lead (thousands of rounds in various calibers ) and gas check bullets to run through before I deplete them but for future use I plan to stick with powder coated as I’ve had decent results with them and just like How much cleaner the equipment stays.

Rule3 said:

Take some and blast them with a propane torch.

Smash them with a hammer.

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You can test coating adhesion by smashing them with a hammer, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my post. The ability to smash them with a hammer doesn't make then better or worse for shooting compared to jacketed.

The "hammer test" only tells if the coating will adhere to the bullet when pressure distorts the bullet. A good application of PC or Hi-Tec will stay on the bullet when hammer tested. I always figgered PCing was just a "soft jacket", if needed, a little higher velocity can be used, clean to handle and shoot. Always started with cast bullet data...

I was torn because I generally use jacketed data for properly sized hardcast. That is for cartridges that run at pressure less than 40,000.

I like the coated bullets better than lubed cast. They are cleaner to load and shoot, they don't make a mess inside your die, and they don't lead the barrel. I do get better accuracy from a quality jacketed bullet vs the same weight/type of coated bullets.

And the coated are generally cheaper than jacketed, which means you can shoot more for the same cost.

AND do load them like cast, although you may be able to creep into lower jacketed data but that is up to you.

chris

Bfh_auto said:

I was torn because I generally use jacketed data for properly sized hardcast. That is for cartridges that run at pressure less than 40,000.

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Most of the time there is quite a bit of overlap in the data assuming the bullet shape is similar.

reddog81 said:

Coated bullets won't lead the bore even if the bullet is too small or alloy to hard or too soft. So there is some additional leeway with coated bullets, but if prepared correctly lubed bullets are just as good if not better.

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I assure you they will lead the barrel if you are determined enough.

DMW1116 said:

I assure you they will lead the barrel if you are determined enough.

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The voice of experience.