Why do people care so much how others enjoy their firearms?

DeepSouth said:

I agree with basically every post here, which is interesting. Most everyone, myself included, has been guilty of the exact thing that’s being criticized here.


I’m probably not the only one that can use a little more self awareness.

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We're all there or have been there and even those of us who have figured it out occasionally lapse from time to time. Kinda comes with the territory of being human......... However at my age I'll probably be getting my cyborg parts installed and who knows eventually I might become a Terminator.

Groupthink.

Firearms enthusiasts, hunters and shooters down at the local gun shop or, most especially, on the internet seem to enjoy portraying themselves as mostly subscribing to the same notions. Or at least, most will pretend that their opinions align with the majority's. We do pretend that there are many gun-related concepts that are so true, we take them for granted and are shocked when someone "violates" our beliefs.

We like to think we have a code. We like to believe there are things you just don't do.

Some truly believe in all seriousness that it's sacrilege to put a scope on a classic lever-action .30-30. Many here believe that the S&W K-frame is the pinnacle of revolver evolution. Start a thread on egregious, unsafe gun-handling and immediately everyone chimes in, absolutely horrified that there are gun-owners who seemingly cannot comprehend The Four Rules. Try making a disparaging remark about Col. Cooper on a 1911 forum. Admit to a negligent discharge and 75 guys on five pages of posts will righteously proclaim they've never had an ND, nor will they ever... Denigrate the venerable 1911 and get out the popcorn. Us old guys that like our guns in blued steel and American walnut know way more about stuff than some skinny jeans-wearing, man-bunned millenial who came up on black plastic guns.

We all subscribe to the Internet Code of Firearms Enthusiasts and Shooters. Which takes some time to learn. We take our lumps while we learn to think like we're supposed to. We excoriate the newcomers when they step out of line, but mostly, those who challenge our code. Often, we as a community tend to be judgmental one-uppers. Even though we are all still rugged individualists and pretend we don't care what everyone else thinks...

DeepSouth said:

Most everyone, myself included, has been guilty of the exact thing that’s being criticized here.

I’m probably not the only one that can use a little more self awareness.

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I agree. Me too.

Personally, I think front cocking serrations and rails on 1911s (which should be chambered only in .45 ACP, obviously) are the spawn of the devil, and if you don't agree with me, I will publicly humiliate you down at the gun shop or out at the range or on the internet...

Old Dog said:

Groupthink.

Firearms enthusiasts, hunters and shooters down at the local gun shop or, most especially, on the internet seem to enjoy portraying themselves as mostly subscribing to the same notions. Or at least, most will pretend that their opinions align with the majority's. We do pretend that there are many gun-related concepts that are so true, we take them for granted and are shocked when someone "violates" our beliefs.

We like to think we have a code. We like to believe there are things you just don't do.

Some truly believe in all seriousness that it's sacrilege to put a scope on a classic lever-action .30-30. Many here believe that the S&W K-frame is the pinnacle of revolver evolution. Start a thread on egregious, unsafe gun-handling and immediately everyone chimes in, absolutely horrified that there are gun-owners who seemingly cannot comprehend The Four Rules. Try making a disparaging remark about Col. Cooper on a 1911 forum. Admit to a negligent discharge and 75 guys on five pages of posts will righteously proclaim they've never had an ND, nor will they ever... Denigrate the venerable 1911 and get out the popcorn. Us old guys that like our guns in blued steel and American walnut know way more about stuff than some skinny jeans-wearing, man-bunned millenial who came up on black plastic guns.

We all subscribe to the Internet Code of Firearms Enthusiasts and Shooters. Which takes some time to learn. We take our lumps while we learn to think like we're supposed to. We excoriate the newcomers when they step out of line, but mostly, those who challenge our code. Often, we as a community tend to be judgmental one-uppers. Even though we are all still rugged individualists and pretend we don't care what everyone else thinks...

I agree. Me too.

Personally, I think front cocking serrations and rails on 1911s (which should be chambered only in .45 ACP, obviously) are the spawn of the devil, and if you don't agree with me, I will publicly humiliate you down at the gun shop or out at the range or on the internet...

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I don't have any problem modifying a historic gun - if Bubba got there first.
I have purchased Bubba jobs specifically to modify while purchasing as-issued guns to shoot and collect.
For example, three of my SKS's are purely stock but one that was bought incomplete has a plastic stock and a bridge scope mount, among other mods.
My mostly as-issued 1894 Swedish Mauser is kept as-purchased, its Bubba-job brother is now a scout rifle,,, ,

daniel craig said:

I totally agree with you, if the intent is to actually have a discussion. I think discussions are a great thing to be had, provided both parties are discussing in good faith. What I am talking about are the things that are not meant to be discussions and just meant to degrade a persons choices. That doesn't happen much on here but it certainly does in other places.

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Happens everywhere on social media and the internet. People have strong opinions against something, and they'll share it in the comment section. Doesn't bother me any and I expect it when I post something online. I will either tell them why I think they are wrong or if you ignore them, they usually go away. I might be the odd man out, but I don't see it as them doing anything wrong just as long as they don't go off topic and start degrading me personally. If I posted about a mod I plan to do or did, and they respond how they think it's the worse idea ever, I see that as being on topic, and not a big deal. Maybe I am just use to it and have thicker skin than others. I don't get offended or bothered as easily as others seem to nowadays.

After reading the other responses, I realize I am an outlier.

daniel craig said:

That doesn't happen much on here but it certainly does in other places.

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That’s the “moderators” work, well, working. At least here.

daniel craig said:

I totally agree with you, if the intent is to actually have a discussion. I think discussions are a great thing to be had, provided both parties are discussing in good faith. What I am talking about are the things that are not meant to be discussions and just meant to degrade a persons choices. That doesn't happen much on here but it certainly does in other places.

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My personal opinion here, but judging by some of the responses in here you triggered a bunch of self denial from some of those that are the most guilty of doing that.

And you are not wrong about seeing this in other places. It's a bit rampant in nearly every community outside of the 2A. I call it personality disorders starting with narcissism.

People hate to see historical artifacts altered and/or Bubba'd. I understand why people feel that way for out of production guns with some historical footing, but your property is your property and I don't think people should really give a tinkers damn, we already got the gov trying to micromanage every bolt and pin

Honestly, when I see something done tastefully, I don't really cringe that much. But people are entitled to their opinions, especially if you ask for them. What you're talking about with the Mosin, sounds like you're just making it practical for your application, some people just can't help themselves and the hack jobs I've seen posted here and elsewhere border on criminal

I even cringe sometimes when I see a regular production gun like a glock is altered almost unrecognizable, but to each their own and personal property is personal. I will admit to looking unfavorably on some mods though, I've passed on more than a few nice old surplus weapons because of the crimes committed against them.....

Howland937 said:

Wow...thanks fellas. I knew I was right in my above post. You're all single handedly responsible for causing the prices of those guns to become astronomical by taking original specimens out of circulation. You should all go stand in the corner and think about what you've done.

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I would prefer to lean against the corner for better support while shooting my Cerakoted Win. 94AE carbine with its really cool XS Sights.

A buddy found a Czech Mauser (VZ-24) at an Orlando gun show about twelve years ago.

Original config,, (miraculously a nice bore also) and had been professionally re-blued with beautifully stained wood. Very attractive irregardless of reduced collector value.

This friend managed-with some difficulty- to install a B-Square scope mount on it —

—with No Cutting or drilling etc. Very appealing with the Scout scope.

He and the previous owner showed such respect for the intended character of a fairly rare Mauser.

This is in Stark contrast to so many sporterized milsurps which my friends and I never found one bit appealing; this Czech Mauser would sell in a flash if “W” were to sell it— and I would drive from Memphis to Chattanooga to pick it up!

The Glockodile said:

Because these types of firearm owners almost always exhibit a body (perhaps mental is the right term) dysmorphism of sorts, delusionably steeped in their own barren, unpopulated universe of rugged, individualistic, alfa male superiority - with all the delusions and trappings of tacticalicious warriorness that come with it

"He can't be a man if he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me."

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The DEVO version came to mind first when I read that . Still stuck in the 80’s I guess…

Stay safe.

I've always gone by if you find a classic in original condition, keep it that way. It will go up in value because theres plenty of '***** that mod and screw them up. THEN go back and look for ones that are original for their sins. Just the cycle of guns. A dumb ass bubba is what it is.

Years ago it was VERY common to buy a milsurp gun then “sporterize” it. It was “normal”. There was no wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Years ago when I got into bullseye and tactical shooting right after I got out of the Navy I bought a Colt Combat Gov’t series 70 1911 .45 ACP. All my shooting buddies were buying stock Springfields and having gunsmiths “trick ‘em out”. And all the old codgers at the range were having heartburn about it.

Years ago anyone mounting a scope on a traditional battle rifle, from 1903’s to AR-15’s was shunned and made fun of because “That just ain’t right! Real men use iron sights!”

A few years ago the trend of customizing, tricking out, slicking up, making “Tacticool” of 1911’s and AR-15s became all the rage. “Barbies” and “Lego’s” for men…”Arrgh, Aargh, Argh!”…to quite Tim Allen. No one gets their panties in a bunch about that….yet.

The current hubbub will become passé at some point and there will be a whole new outrage someday for busy bodies, connoisseurs and elitists to wet their pants over.

Hey, wanna have a contest on what that will be?
I am kidding. Life’s too short to create more drama and outrage over the inane.

Styx said:

Yea and post it over on 1911forum.com, and see how that goes. Don't set the OP up for failure.

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You misspelled fun.

daniel craig said:

LOL don't tempt me

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Imagine the potential, my CMP 1911 finish is worn (pic) ... I think I'll Duracoat it. Pick out some bright colors:

starling said:

A lot of times its about taking on a challenge.

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Good point. Or taking pride in making a purse out of a pig's ear.

starling said:

Sounds like your experience with the SKS was pretty miserable. I suspect the cover mount was moving in combination with the ammo and probably the Milspec trigger was the culprits playing havoc with you. From the factory they are not precision rifles...at all. They are "combat" accurate. Like I said..the AR blows them away in practically every aspect. I kind of chuckle when AR fanatics (not talking about you Smaug)get irritated with SKS rifles and cheap steel case ammo performance. Ummmmmm....DUH? What do they expect?

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Yea, I'm sure the cover mount was moving a bit; it's not a tight integral part with the barrel or even receiver. It was bad enough that I shot better with the open sights. That piece was a waste of $15. Could the ammo be that bad? Isn't that the same stuff the Russian military used? Not that they're equipped with the best stuff, but they did want to be able to hit a guy at more than 50 yards with a rifle, I'd think... The trigger was not match grade, but if everything else was OK, I think I could've shot it 2" or better at 50 yds.

I hope that discussion was useful to the OP. I wouldn't recommend an SKS as a deer rifle. The Mosin-Nagant would be better. Don't want to gut-shoot the poor buggers because the rifle's not accurate.

If someone likes what I like, that's great but if not that's ok too. It doesn't effect what I collect in the least.

Smaug said:

Good point. Or taking pride in making a purse out of a pig's ear.


Yea, I'm sure the cover mount was moving a bit; it's not a tight integral part with the barrel or even receiver. It was bad enough that I shot better with the open sights. That piece was a waste of $15. Could the ammo be that bad? Isn't that the same stuff the Russian military used? Not that they're equipped with the best stuff, but they did want to be able to hit a guy at more than 50 yards with a rifle, I'd think... The trigger was not match grade, but if everything else was OK, I think I could've shot it 2" or better at 50 yds.

I hope that discussion was useful to the OP. I wouldn't recommend an SKS as a deer rifle. The Mosin-Nagant would be better. Don't want to gut-shoot the poor buggers because the rifle's not accurate.

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If you dont have to spend a whole lot of tedious time fitting a cover mount and know what your doing its going to be junk for a magnified opotic. Its a good bit harder than drilling and tapping. Mine are very, very, tight but I still only use them for red dots. They wont come of without tools. SKSs have suck sloppy manufacturing specs that finding a covermount that is extremely oversized allowing for precise fitting can be a challenge. The only one I ever really found like that was the weaver brand ones and even those are just a hair oversized for all the yugos I have handled.

Thats pretty bad for an SKS accuracy wise. That cheap ammo isnt great but its ussually better than that. Hard to tell what was going on without having the rifle in my hands. I have seen some really shoddy SKSs that looked great but couldnt group worth a darn. We are kind of spoiled with the modern manufacturing standards... now the materials is another story. SKSs are not plug and play like most modern stuff. Practically everything must be fitted by someone who has some experience and knows what they are doing. Its not rocket science of course but there is a learning curve. The aftermarket parts throw even more problems into the mix sometimes. Then there is inconsistent Ammo.

My guess is You either had a lemon or it was a combination of a lot of factors working in conjunction. That rifle has something going on. Ive never shot an SKS that was THAT bad with iron sights. Either that or someone used the wrong sized bullets in those cartridges.... but you likely would have had some cycling issues.

That ammo can be pretty inconsistent. Taking a box of cheap 7.62x39 and weighing each cartridge on a scale can be eye opening. If I am getting 4-6" groups at 100 yards I am satisfied with that cheap steel case. People claiming 1-2MOA with wolf steel case through an SKS must have magic dust sprinkled on their rifles,

Some posters bring up a well it depends on where you are. Well no, there are somethings that are just flat wrong and even if you know nothing about the subject your eye will tell you wrong.

Case in point.

I will leave this thread with something I learned a long time ago....

If you modify something to your specific tastes when it comes time to sell if you want top dollar you are going to need to find someone with your same tastes....that does not happen that often. If they want an "altered" example they don't want your vision, they want to do it themselves. No one wants to buy someone else vision. Flip it back easy, that is a plus. In the gun world all you need to do is look at all the hack jobs bubba did to the 91/30, then they see original examples selling for many times that $89 they bought it for, but can't figure out why that Remington for some reason is selling for over a grand while his is still sitting there with a price of $300. And yes I know there are some very well done sporter jobs, that is not the norm and we all know it.

In the end if you plan on being buried with it who cares its resale value, if you like it who cares what others think. But if you post your handy work and think everyone is going to think your great, you might need to rethink that and get some thick skin. And now many years after the $89 pick you rifle in the crate you better grow real thick skin.

CDW4ME said:

You misspelled fun.



Imagine the potential, my CMP 1911 finish is worn (pic) ... I think I'll Duracoat it. Pick out some bright colors:
View attachment 1109563

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Hey... thats just Scuba Camo. Its "Tactical" dont let anyone tell you different. Nice pistol to strap on when you are snorkeling or at the local pool.

I hate wild colors on pistols but there is just something about the light blue on stainless that pops for me. Feels like I am at the ocean on a boat or marina.

"Why do people care so much how others enjoy their firearms?"

From The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, by Robert A. Heinlein:

“Thing that got me was not her list of things she hated, since she was obviously crazy as a Cyborg, but fact that always somebody agreed with her prohibitions. Must be a yearning deep in human heart to stop other people from doing as they please. Rules, laws — always for other fellow. A murky part of us, something we had before we came down out of trees, and failed to shuck when we stood up. Because not one of those people said: "Please pass this so that I won't be able to do something I know I should stop." Nyet, tovarishchee, was always something they hated to see neighbors doing. Stop them "for their own good" — not because speaker claimed to be harmed by it.”

One thing to always remember for the hotheads is that we are all fellow firearms enthusiests regardless of a particular midset or desire on how to own and what to do (legally of course ) with firearms. In that aspect its kind of silly to be infighting when we should be helping and guiding each other with concerns/problems whenever possible. this includes ways to modify or restore firearms.

You will see me take some potshots at tactical CCW whatevers with "I do whatever I want!" midsets but I try to be patient and tactful as I dont like seeing people habitualize reckless behaviors and mindsets when it comes to firearms.

There are a lot of people these days that imply dont respect how dangerous a firearm can be. One sloppy accident or lapse in concentration can ruin your life or someone elses. Even professional snake handlers get bit once in a while.