Legal? - Took potential school shooters parents guns for safekeeping

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Aim1

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So, other kids reported that a 12 year old threatened to shoot up his school. So the police executed a search warrant at his parents house and took a bunch of guns for safekeeping. They were not his guns but rather his parents guns who were not suspected of anything.

Perhaps this family doesn't have a gun safe that they could use to keep the guns locked up away from the student, or any way to lock them up, and that's why the police took them. I don't know the specifics. It didn't say that the parents asked law enforcement to take the guns either.


Now, if the parents had a way to lock the guns up and keep them from the kid and the police said doesn't matter we are taking them anyway for safekeeping, is that legal?


I'd be upset because I guarantee you firstly I don't want the police taking my property and secondly they will not be returned in the same condition they left in, they will return with scratches, nicks, and dents and I'd be pissed off.



What do you think?






https://www.foxnews.com/us/californ...old-allegedly-threatening-shoot-middle-school




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Proper care and supervision of your children and this won't be an issue.

Some kids are just bad apples doesn’t matter how well they were raised.

Back to the point, if the kid had access to the guns remove them. Threatening to shoot up a school is as bad as threatening a bomb on a plane now a days. Cannot take any threat lightly.
 
I cannot begin to think that would be legal in Arizona. Cali does a LOT of unconstitutional garbage like this, but here? I could very easily see cops offering cable locks for unsecured firearms, or a phone number of a good safe dealer, something like that. But seize the firearms of someone who has done nothing illegal? Not likely, especially if the individual was arrested and in jail. Now if the kid was released back to his parents, I could easily see a court order for no UNSECURED firearms in the house, possibly even knives, but not removed for "safekeeping".
While I understand the basic WHY this kind of thing would be done, even in the purest snow white sense, but no matter how you are framing it - it's precrime punishment of an innocent party.
 
The days of leaving guns unsecured around the house with kids in it are over...Not much else really needs to be said.

Depends....

In my case it went from guns out to guns locked up to guns out again. It really depends on the kid, and where he is at the time. Most kids have their brain fall out of their head at around 12-13, it starts to come back in the late teens early 20's.

My son had his own 22 in his room at age 7. I think at 11 I took it away and locked it up. The guns came back out after he moved out, and he got his gun back several years ago when he got his head screwed on straight. It is not an uncommon story.

The key to this story is you have to be "in tune" with your kids and know what is going on in their life. That really does not exist much anymore.
 
So, other kids reported that a 12 year old threatened to shoot up his school. So the police executed a search warrant at his parents house and took a bunch of guns for safekeeping. They were not his guns but rather his parents guns who were not suspected of anything.

Perhaps this family doesn't have a gun safe that they could use to keep the guns locked up away from the student, or any way to lock them up, and that's why the police took them. I don't know the specifics. It didn't say that the parents asked law enforcement to take the guns either.


Now, if the parents had a way to lock the guns up and keep them from the kid and the police said doesn't matter we are taking them anyway for safekeeping, is that legal?


I'd be upset because I guarantee you firstly I don't want the police taking my property and secondly they will not be returned in the same condition they left in, they will return with scratches, nicks, and dents and I'd be pissed off.



What do you think?






https://www.foxnews.com/us/californ...old-allegedly-threatening-shoot-middle-school




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View attachment 1110996

Your question now.....is that legal?

Depends, don't you just love that answer.

Well idiot what does it depend on then.......

The Judge.

So many people have zero idea at the power a judge has, and it really is crazy. He could wright something up that says take every spoon out of the house and those evil cops would have to do it. If they don't they at best loose their job, at worst jail time for you.

So without seeing the warrant it is really hard to tell (I did not click the link to see if it is there but I doubt it) Even if they are locked up, does not matter, they will get into that safe and take everything in there, again does not matter if it is a gun or a spoon....if you have spoons in that safe we will get someone in here to cut it open and get those spoons out. The warrant says to remove all spoons from the property.

Now no warrant no entry, always remember that.
 
Proper care and supervision of your children and this won't be an issue.

...along with safe and proper storage of your firearms.

Some kids are just bad apples doesn’t matter how well they were raised.

....still, most of the time, by law, parents are responsible for their actions until they turn of legal age.


I'd be upset because I guarantee you firstly I don't want the police taking my property and secondly they will not be returned in the same condition they left in, they will return with scratches, nicks, and dents and I'd be pissed off.

...if I had a twelve year old kid arrested because he threatened to shoot up a school, the last thing I would worry about is a few scratches on confiscated guns. Sometimes, it's hard to understand where some people's priorities lie.
 
To me, this sounds like a 4th amendment issue. However, I’m not on the professional side of the legal business and I’m sure one of our esteemed THR law scholars will be along to clarify the laws broken…if any.

I stand by my original post. Societal norms have changed on how the bulk of our citizenry responds/interprets an incident involving children or young adults and guns. Especially on the point of how they acquire them to commit crimes.

All I’m saying is you can be proactive and save yourself (in particular) and possibly your family and neighbors a lot of drama and possibly pain by securing your firearms if there’s any possibility that a child or young adult could acquire access to them.

If those guns in question were secured ( inside safe etc) with the child not knowing combo then there might be legal recourse the owners can pursue.

Anybody remember this case? Cub Scout. Exemplary student. Strong family. Active in church. Psych eval showed he was a normal kid. Gun was locked up but somehow he knew where dad hid key. No indications whatsoever he was capable of doing this.

Imagine if your child did this today and what the repercussions would be. Take the easy way out. Secure your guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/03/us/13-year-old-pleads-no-contest-in-killing-of-friend.html
 
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We don’t know if the kid has a history of violence or disturbance or if it was simply some kid being an idiot and saying something ridiculous. My wife is a teacher and they had to evacuate the school because some dumb kid made a joke about a bomb. Yes it was stupid but, it doesn’t mean the kid should be held to a lifetime of accountability for a moment of stupid once it was determined that the kid just lacks self control in speech. It also doesn’t mean the parents are failures who suck at life and should be banned from owning firearms and “should have known” their kid was disturbed. We also don’t know whether or not the parents already had their firearms secured or not. So, to say simply knowing if their kid was disturbed would have prevented their firearms from being taken away is obtuse, quick to accept a media narrative and lacks any curiosity for truth.

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at.

If you're paying attention to what is going on with your children you should know enough not to have guns around in the first place if one of them is a murderous psychopath.
 
…because it’s illegal? It’s possible to maintain “priorities” for multiple concerns at once. You can both be concerned about the safety of kids AND be concerned that peoples constitutional rights remain intact. This is the same lazy argument of leftists and gun control activists who would say, if you aren’t willing to turn in all your firearms and abolish the second amendment, you want kids to be killed at school.

...along with safe and proper storage of your firearms.



....still, most of the time, by law, parents are responsible for their actions until they turn of legal age.




...if I had a twelve year old kid arrested because he threatened to shoot up a school, the last thing I would worry about is a few scratches on confiscated guns. Sometimes, it's hard to understand where some people's priorities lie.
 
Proper care and supervision of your children and this won't be an issue.

The problem is the State has preemptively MADE it an issue without regard to how the parents handle anything with respect to their child.

Again, we don't know all the facts in this, so MAYBE there were what a reasonable person would actually deem to be real concerns/dangers in this regard. Personally, I'm betting not. The State has a history of going after low hanging fruit for obviously political or fiscal reasons in such matters.

Red flag laws are deliberately written vague enough to allow the police to generate pretty much ANY excuse to act in this fashion... and shocker, there are plenty of examples of them doing just that.

And it's apparently growing.

I haven't looked into this through various other sources to confirm, but here's a very recent YouTube video about skyrocketing firearms confiscation in New York:

 
…because it’s illegal? It’s possible to maintain “priorities” for multiple concerns at once. You can both be concerned about the safety of kids AND be concerned that peoples constitutional rights remain intact. This is the same lazy argument of leftists and gun control activists who would say, if you aren’t willing to turn in all your firearms and abolish the second amendment, you want kids to be killed at school.


Read my post again......I said nuttin' about turning in any guns. The lazy argument here is assuming this action was all about gun confiscation and the intentional violation of 2nd Amendment rights. We know very few, if any of the real facts here. There really is nuttin' to argue about, either lazily or aggressively. As a parent, my main concern would be what mental state of mind is my 12 Y.O. kid is at, where they threaten to shoot up a school, and is thus arrested. I would be thanking God he did not/could not go thru with it and didn't die in the process......much less kill a bunch of innocents. There's a lot more here than any of us know. Standing on a soap box and screaming rights were violated, when we know absolutely nuttin, shows just how intelligent we are.
 
Depends....

In my case it went from guns out to guns locked up to guns out again. It really depends on the kid, and where he is at the time. Most kids have their brain fall out of their head at around 12-13, it starts to come back in the late teens early 20's.

My son had his own 22 in his room at age 7. I think at 11 I took it away and locked it up. The guns came back out after he moved out, and he got his gun back several years ago when he got his head screwed on straight. It is not an uncommon story.

The key to this story is you have to be "in tune" with your kids and know what is going on in their life. That really does not exist much anymore.

Case in point; one of my sons attempted suicide at 12. He chose a rope.(Thank the Lord he didn't know how to tie a decent knot or noose!) Guns were accessible had he chosen. He was taught young what they are, what they are for, and the conditions under which he could use them. He did not even think of using a gun.
 
If the only thing keeping your kid from executing an act of violence is the lock on your gun safe, you have far more serious problems that need to be addressed immediately. The notion that kids, especially teens, who have access to firearms and are knowledgeable in their use are automatically some sort of threat is ignorant and blatantly offensive. It's really no different than the patronizing crap thrown at ALL gun owners by the hoplophobe zealots.
 
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A ten year old boy said he was going to break into his neighbors house, steal firearms, and shoot up a school. Because he didn’t get cookies for a snack, only graham crackers.

Because we take every threat seriously, even from toddlers, everyone on the block had their homes searched. “Dangerous Contraband” was removed for disposal and sexual deviants were reported to the proper church/government agency.




I find the lack of adults around lately to be quite disturbing.


Someone would have huge explaining to do if I came home to find my safe and it’s contents confiscated on a threat by a child…

I also notice a lack of scary weapons. Those all look like hunting arms to me…
 
To me, this sounds like a 4th amendment issue. However, I’m not on the professional side of the legal business and I’m sure one of our esteemed THR law scholars will be along to clarify the laws broken…if any.

I stand by my original post. Societal norms have changed on how the bulk of our citizenry responds/interprets an incident involving children or young adults and guns. Especially on the point of how they acquire them to commit crimes.

All I’m saying is you can be proactive and save yourself (in particular) and possibly your family and neighbors a lot of drama and possibly pain by securing you firearms if there’s any possibility that a child or young adult could acquire access to them.

If those guns in question were secured ( inside safe etc) with the child not knowing combo then there might be legal recourse the owners can pursue.

Anybody remember this case? Cub Scout. Exemplary student. Strong family. Active in church. Psych eval showed he was a normal kid. Gun was looked up but somehow he knew where dad hid key. No indications whatsoever he was capable of doing this.

Imagine if your child did this today and what the repercussions would be. Take the easy way out. Secure your guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/03/us/13-year-old-pleads-no-contest-in-killing-of-friend.html


You make some very valid points, and if dummy me had read all the replies I would not have posted my last post.

There is a difference between the kid in the story you link and someone wanting to do "crime things". Your story was an accident, it was his friend I assume (have not read the article yet but the title) This is a kid doing show and tell, see how cool this thing is, let me show you.

And again you need to know your kids to make these kind of decisions. Is your kid a "follower" or "leader" does he bend easy to peer pressure, is he looking for validation....none of these things are "bad" but can lead to actions like you linked....again if it is his friend....I need to read the article, but like giving my two bits more, I will read it.

If there is any question, if you have one hair on your neck stand up, one soft little voice in your head say....ahh think that over. Then you need to error on the side of safety.

In my case I had zero worries about my son till he got into high school, then the wheels came off the wagon. And it is a very common tale.

When he was younger we shot all kinds of "stuff" just shooting paper or dinging steel really does not show what a gun can do, kids are very see and believe. We shot milk jugs with water, old pumpkins, all kinds of things and he knew just how powerful even the lowly 22 rimfire is. I don't know if it did anything, but he did know what would happen if he shot something. It was a very dangerous thing.

When he was in high school, he was helping clean up after a storm. We had trees down, and the chain saw was killing me. We did a chain saw 101, with a starter what is harder the tree or your leg. Now how long do you think your leg will last if you don't take care. We then went onto basic chain saw stuff, getting it pinched, in the dirt....all of it.

I really think education is key, and it needs to be the correct education.

Now I am going to read your article.
 
Case in point; one of my sons attempted suicide at 12. He chose a rope.(Thank the Lord he didn't know how to tie a decent knot or noose!) Guns were accessible had he chosen. He was taught young what they are, what they are for, and the conditions under which he could use them. He did not even think of using a gun.

I have known quite a few people that have had issues like your son. Every attempt is not....genuine I guess I will say..... Many it is a call for help when they don't know how to ask, or see it as not an option. Mental health is something that hits each person differently, and what is no big deal to you, could be a HUGE deal to another person, enough to shut them down. Seen it.

A gun is basically a sure fire way to end it, perhaps he did not go that route because he really did not want to end it. I have seen lots of suicides, and one thing that is interesting is that women don't usually shoot themselves in the head, men do. Lots of thoughts around this, but general thought is women want to look pretty and that sticks with them at the worst of the worst times.

I am so glad he did not have success, another thing most "adults" say is, what is a 12yr old so upset about he would end it all. Everything and more then most "adults".

I am not good with words but I hope that all came across the way I wanted it to.
 
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