Monolithic Bullets. Your favorite manufacturer and why?

westernrover said:

What is the reason for a heavier bullet unless more sectional density is needed for deeper penetration on heavy game or less drag is needed to maintain velocity over a long-range? For hunting the most common medium-sized game in North America, whitetail, mule deer, pronghorn, etc., it seems that a sectional density of around 0.2 for copper monolithic projectiles delivers sufficient penetration. So we see 80, 100, 110, 130 grain bullets in 243, 6.5, 270, and 30 calibers for example. Is there a rationale for heavier bullets for hunting game besides much heavier game (brown bear, elk, moose, etc.)? Longer, and heavier bullets will give a higher BC, but the lighter bullets will shoot flatter until the BC is way beyond hunting bullet designs and the ranges are beyond hunting distances. Are these lighter monos failing to penetrate on game, or is there another reason people are seeking longer and heavier-for-caliber bullets?

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As you noted, higher BC = less drop, drift, and drag over the long haul. There are numerous threads, posts, articles about the whole long range hunting thing, so I'll not go there. Also a lot of the mono-bullets have a higher expansion velocity requirement, which turns into an effective range limitation. This is where the Berger hunting bullets shine, very high BC, lower impact velocity requirement for expansion, plus they're about the most accurate hunting bullet going. Due to the higher BC they also shed velocity slower, which in return increases effective range.

Fore instance, IF I go with the normal parameters for my chosen hunting bullet (Nosler ABs or BTs) the 1800 FPS min expansion velocity recommended by Nosler can be a range limitation.

With some guys it's all about exterior ballistics VS. terminal. I also agree for about 95% of the game shot in the country, the really high BC bullets aren't needed. But for the guys toting "crossover" rifles (More a TGT rifle than classic hunting rifle), why not maximize your range potential? Also, here in KS at least, anything that helps defeat the %$&^$ wind is a "good thing".

Larry in wyoming said:

Monos also have better sectional density. They are longer for their weight , so the penetrate better.

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Not exactly right. A 165gr .308 diameter bullet has the same sectional density indifferent to what it is made of.

The formula for sectional density as commonly used in ballistics is: SD = bullet weight (pounds) / bullet diameter (inches)^2

As you can see from the formula length plays no role in calculating section density.

All copper bullet typically have slightly lower ballistic coefficient than a lead core bullet of the same weight and shape. As you indicated an all copper bullet is longer for the same weight and this increases the skin drag on the bullet. All copper bullets also require slightly faster twist rates again due to being longer for their weight.

Oops! Remembered that formula wrong.
Thanks for the correction.

Chuck R. said:

As you noted, higher BC = less drop and drift over the long haul. There are numerous threads, posts, articles about the whole long range hunting thing, so I'll not go there. Also a lot of the mono-bullets have a higher expansion velocity requirement, which turns into an effective range limitation. This is where the Berger hunting bullets shine, very high BC, lower impact velocity requirement for expansion, plus they're about the most accurate hunting bullet going.

Fore instance, IF I go with the normal parameters for my chosen hunting bullet (Nosler ABs or BTs) the 1800 FPS min expansion velocity recommended by Nosler can be a range limitation.

With some guys it's all about exterior ballistics VS. terminal. I also agree for about 95% of the game shot in the country, the really high BC bullets aren't needed. But for the guys toting "crossover" rifles (More a TGT rifle than classic hunting rifle), why not maximize your range potential? Also, here in KS at least, anything that helps defeat the %$&^$ wind is a "good thing".

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This narrow impact velocity requirement is becoming less and less of a thing for all copper bullets. The early X-bullet certainly suffered from it. All copper bullet manufacture are learning to play with various copper alloys and various pre-segmentation, pre-forming expansion, and the amount of annealing and this has greatly improved the range over which copper bullets reliably expand. The fact that there are several manufactures of all copper bullets making lines of bullets that reliable expand at subsonic velocities points to the fact that the all copper bullets have come a long way from the original X-bullet.

KansasTrapper77 said:

Last night I watched two video on YouTube by FRONTLINE REJECTS using a 6mm ARC he fired the Barnes 80gr TTSX into water jugs at 100,200,300,400,500 yards. Then in a newer video did the same with the Hornady 80gr CX. And I gotta say I liked the expansion of the Hornady more. I’m thinking I’m going to load that bullet this year. The real question is do I go for the conventional shot behind the shoulder or punch the shoulder itself? Shots will be under 200 yards and according to Hornady 4DOF the projectile should be going 2400+ fps if you keep the shots under 200 yards.

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I prefer the behind the shoulder shot to keep the meat damage minimized, if at all possible.

Behind the shoulder for me too.

Shoulder, can't run much without front legs, not much to eat on there shoulders anyway. Better wasting a little meat then loose a animal more so with a mono.

I reload, Fox bullets that are made in Slovenia. I load their 150 grn classic hunter bullet in my .308 and 180grn classic bullet in my 8x57jrs.
Both bullets shoot extremely well and so far no complaints about there performance. There are a couple of companies in the UK making mono bullets and from what I've read they seem to work OK on deer.

I have finally been able to get my hands on some 30 cal 130 grain TTSX for my 308 win.
I’m going to do some load work and see what my come.
With the firearm climate in NY and the talk of going to monolithic bullets I fear it’s only a matter of time.

Wolfshead said:

I have finally been able to get my hands on some 30 cal 130 grain TTSX for my 308 win.
I’m going to do some load work and see what my come.
With the firearm climate in NY and the talk of going to monolithic bullets I fear it’s only a matter of time.

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Those should work well in .308. According to Barnes load data, you should be able easily to achieve >3,000 fps MV. At that speed, your impact velocity would be >2,200 fps out to 300 yards and >2,000 fps out to 400 yards.

KansasTrapper77 said:

As the name implies I’m not asking for a lead vs Monolithic debate. I am interested in your monolithic preferences.

Monolithic bullets have piqued my interest (Thanks Hornady Podcast). I am interested in trying a monolithic in .243 Win.

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I hunt Caribou in Alaska exclusively wit a 243 Winchester and only use Barnes TSX (85 grn) now. Taken 3 so far. All were DRT. None took another step. 104, 120, and 175 yards. One was on a dead run. All were about 300 lbs. Never recovered a bullet, but the Barnes TSX turned heart and lung tissue into jelly, smashed through shoulder blade, etc.

Accuracy is 1.5 moa with a maximum charge of Superperformance powder. MV around 3900 fps gives me the required minimum terminal velocity of 2000 fps out to about 400 yards. If you're not a handloader, Barnes sells a preloaded, commercial cartridge withvthe 80 grn TTSX bullet and Federal sells one with the 85 grn TSX. Both are acceptable, but the TTSX was more accurate in my gun. (I use the TSX n my handloads because the TTSX is never available as a component.)

D.B. Cooper said:

I hunt Caribou in Alaska exclusively wit a 243 Winchester and only use Barnes TSX (85 grn) now. Taken 3 so far. All were DRT. None took another step. 104, 120, and 175 yards. One was on a dead run. All were about 300 lbs. Never recovered a bullet, but the Barnes TSX turned heart and lung tissue into jelly, smashed through shoulder blade, etc.

Accuracy is 1.5 moa with a maximum charge of Superperformance powder. MV around 3900 fps gives me the required minimum terminal velocity of 2000 fps out to about 400 yards. If you're not a handloader, Barnes sells a preloaded, commercial cartridge withvthe 80 grn TTSX bullet and Federal sells one with the 85 grn TSX. Both are acceptable, but the TTSX was more accurate in my gun. (I use the TSX n my handloads because the TTSX is never available as a component.)

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If you can order online, several stores, including Midwayusa.com, have the 80 grain TTSX in stock. Check out ammoseek.com

BTW, is 3900 fps a typo? Barnes shows 3300 fps as their hottest load.

wombat13 said:

If you can order online, several stores, including Midwayusa.com, have the 80 grain TTSX in stock. Check out ammoseek.com

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Thanks. Yeah, I was referring to the projectiles being hard to find. Loaded ammo is usually available, but I'm primarily a hand loader for hunting ammo.

D.B. Cooper said:

Thanks. Yeah, I was referring to the projectiles being hard to find. Loaded ammo is usually available, but I'm primarily a hand loader for hunting ammo.

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Yes, I’m talking about bullets too. You can search for components on ammoseek

wombat13 said:

Yes, I’m talking about bullets too. You can search for components on ammoseek

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Yes I believe that they have just got a shipment in from Barnes.
That is where I was able to get the 30 cal 130 grain bullets from.
I’ve been searching for a long while and finally got a notification from Midway that they were available.

Well. The TTSX projectiles were unobtainium (at least in 80 grn 6mm) gor such a long time, and I ran itno a bunch of the 85 grn TSX at a local shop, so I cleaned them out. In this market, it's best to get while the gettin' is good.

mcb said:

This narrow impact velocity requirement is becoming less and less of a thing for all copper bullets. The early X-bullet certainly suffered from it. All copper bullet manufacture are learning to play with various copper alloys and various pre-segmentation, pre-forming expansion, and the amount of annealing and this has greatly improved the range over which copper bullets reliably expand. The fact that there are several manufactures of all copper bullets making lines of bullets that reliable expand at subsonic velocities points to the fact that the all copper bullets have come a long way from the original X-bullet.

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Yes, I use the Barnes XPB and TAC-XP in handgun ammo at handgun velocities and it works well. Admittedly, it is 357 Magnum. From expansion test results, Barnes bullets look to work well in 9x19 and 40 S&W, but might have trouble expanding for 45 ACP or 380 ACP - might depend on barrel length.

Also, copper monos are working great in subsonic cartridges as you say: some of the best 300 BO bullets are monos. This one's not subsonic, but hardly a barn-burner either. Look at that expansion.