45 Hardball- doesn't need to be fancy

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Palladan44

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20221114_212228.jpg 20221115_163858.jpg 20221115_163908.jpg Oddly enough, the last pistol cartridge I'm getting the caliber conversion kit and dies for is......45 ACP. Strange right?
Well, I never shot a volume of them enough to really justify it. And, honestly I don't plan on it now....but maybe this will be an egg/chicken situation and I'll wind up shooting 45 ACP more now that I will begin to load for it.

Bullets I have for now are some Rainier 230 FMJs I have federal LPPs and a huge lot of once fired Federal brass.
Powders I have that would suit this application are W-231, Power Pistol, BE86 and CFE Pistol

I don't need anything specific out of these other than to be accurate as possible and to function in both my 1911s. One is an M1911A1 from around 1943 and the other a Colt MK IV series 70 mfg around 7 years ago.

My first inclination from glancing at some books is to start with W-231 @ 4.5gr with these seated to around 1.250" and I'll likely work up a bit and just wind up settling happily just north of there. (My hypothesis)

Any suggestions?
 
Yep! I don't own any .45s anymore, but I also found reloading the cartridge particularly satisfying.
 
Sounds like you're good to go. The only suggestion I can offer is to check that Federal brass for small primer pockets if you haven't already. 45's are a blast to load and shoot.
 
Sounds like you're good to go. The only suggestion I can offer is to check that Federal brass for small primer pockets if you haven't already. 45's are a blast to load and shoot.
If loading progressively that can be a real show stopper. ;)
Federal and blazer in my stash.
 
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If loading progressively that can be a real show stopper. ;)
Federal and blazer in my stash.
I guess I’m not sure why those wouldn’t get sorted out during case prep. Seems like (from what I’ve read here) Progressives do more case prep than normal folks. Or maybe that’s just exactly what you’re suggesting? If you’re going to convert to Progressive you need to do more case prep?
 
View attachment 1115209 View attachment 1115210 View attachment 1115211 Oddly enough, the last pistol cartridge I'm getting the caliber conversion kit and dies for is......45 ACP. Strange right?
Well, I never shot a volume of them enough to really justify it. And, honestly I don't plan on it now....but maybe this will be an egg/chicken situation and I'll wind up shooting 45 ACP more now that I will begin to load for it.

Bullets I have for now are some Rainier 230 FMJs I have federal LPPs and a huge lot of once fired Federal brass.
Powders I have that would suit this application are W-231, Power Pistol, BE86 and CFE Pistol

I don't need anything specific out of these other than to be accurate as possible and to function in both my 1911s. One is an M1911A1 from around 1943 and the other a Colt MK IV series 70 mfg around 7 years ago.

My first inclination from glancing at some books is to start with W-231 @ 4.5gr with these seated to around 1.250" and I'll likely work up a bit and just wind up settling happily just north of there. (My hypothesis)

Any suggestions?
First of all it’s chicken/egg, not egg/chicken.

BE-86 in the 5.8-6.0 range & W231 4.5-5.0 are good for me
 
I started 45 where you are with 230 fmj and 231 through a 5" SA Milspec. Here is some of the data I got with Hornady 230's. It was 49 deg that day:
4.5 231 @ 1.230 655fps - very dirty
4.8 231 @ 1.230 701fps - still dirty
5.0 231 @ 1.230 760fps - I load most here
5.2 231 @ 1.230 778fps - best accuracy
Recently tried WST and liked the results (73 deg day). Cleaner and softer recoil. Will definitely try some more. Only shot 10 rounds of each.
4.1 WST @ 1.230 731fps - Best accuracy
4.3 WST @ 1.230 745fps
For me the 45 is a blast to shoot. It sounds different, feels different and brings a smile to my face. I particularly like shooting coated 200gr SWC's.
Have fun.
 
I started 45 where you are with 230 fmj and 231 through a 5" SA Milspec. Here is some of the data I got with Hornady 230's. It was 49 deg that day:
4.5 231 @ 1.230 655fps - very dirty
4.8 231 @ 1.230 701fps - still dirty
5.0 231 @ 1.230 760fps - I load most here
5.2 231 @ 1.230 778fps - best accuracy
Recently tried WST and liked the results (73 deg day). Cleaner and softer recoil. Will definitely try some more. Only shot 10 rounds of each.
4.1 WST @ 1.230 731fps - Best accuracy
4.3 WST @ 1.230 745fps
For me the 45 is a blast to shoot. It sounds different, feels different and brings a smile to my face. I particularly like shooting coated 200gr SWC's.
Have fun.
This is helpful to know. Thank you
 
I started 45 where you are with 230 fmj and 231 through a 5" SA Milspec. Here is some of the data I got with Hornady 230's. It was 49 deg that day:
4.5 231 @ 1.230 655fps - very dirty
4.8 231 @ 1.230 701fps - still dirty
5.0 231 @ 1.230 760fps - I load most here
5.2 231 @ 1.230 778fps - best accuracy
Recently tried WST and liked the results (73 deg day). Cleaner and softer recoil. Will definitely try some more. Only shot 10 rounds of each.
4.1 WST @ 1.230 731fps - Best accuracy
4.3 WST @ 1.230 745fps
For me the 45 is a blast to shoot. It sounds different, feels different and brings a smile to my face. I particularly like shooting coated 200gr SWC's.
Have fun.
Yes lower W231 loads are dirtier
 
I have lost count of the number of 45acp I have loaded. got to be nearing 30-40k now. I've kept a log for one 1911 and that's over 14k through it.

4.0 bullseye under a 200 swc has been my go to for decades.
ran 5.0 W231 for a few years when I couldn't find BE though.
 
Recently tried WST and liked the results

One of my favorites is WST with 200grn bullets, in the .45. WST is faster than W231, so I don't normally like it with 230's because you have to redline the load to get near factory velocity (which is what I normally duplicate) but it works well for target velocity loads... light recoil, very clean, and very good accuracy.
 
From Clawson’s book Colt .45 service pistols: Models of 1911 and 1911A1.

(At $1,100 a book, I think I am going to hold on to my copy!)

The original 45ACP load, used in the 1910 trials, and then hencefore for decades was a 230 FMJ with 5.0 grains of Bullseye pistol powder. The specified velocity was 800 fps.

Slower on a cold day, moving about where I expected on a warm. Just like us all.

Rock Island Arsenal GI M1911

230 FMJ 5.0 grs Bullseye (1998 & 2005 mix) WLP, OAL 1.265" taper crimp 0.469"once fired brass
18-Dec-17 T = 58 °F

Ave Vel = 777.4
Std Dev = 14.56
ES = 57.1
High = = 806
Low = 748.9
Number rds= 30

230 gr RMR FMJ 5.0 grs Bullseye lot 907 6/5/05 Mixed cases WLP OAL 1.265" taper crimp 0.469"
27-May-20 T = 80 °F

Ave Vel = 795.1
Std Dev = 22.11
ES = 67.6
High = = 839.5
Low = 771.9
N = 8

Given that powder pressures vary, leading to velocity variations, these old cartridge boxes show early 45 ACP ammunition went 800 fps.

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and this was the National Match ammunition for that year. Velocities on the box.

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Bullseye pistol powder is the baseline for the 45 ACP, it is still hugely popular in 2700 Bullseye pistol competition because it can be downloaded and it still shoots within the inherent capability of the pistol at 50 yards.
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a light load such as what Ernest was using, requires a 12 lb recoil spring for function.

When Bullseye pistol powder became hard to find Titegroup gained a following. Basically I like faster powders in the 1911 than slower. I consider Unique a slower powder. Pressure drop is very important, I don’t know if the 1911 was designed to use the residual blowback effect, as what pressure gauges did John Browning have, but the residual blowback affect is clearly in operation in a 1911. The residual blowback affect uses the last of the pressure in the barrel, to push the case out during unlock. This has to be timed so unlock is under the burst strength of a case sidewall, about 650 psia or less, and won't rip the rim off! You can see from the drag marks, and the soot on the case, that these cases were moving while there still was pressure in the barrel.

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Slower powders would be great in things like Thompson sub guns, where the bolt is extremely heavy,

Custom Thompson receiver, upside down



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Custom Thompson sub gun bolt


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but in my 1911’s, a slower powder such as Unique, or Blue Dot, accelerates the slide more than I like and kicks cases out 20 feet or more. I consider high slide speeds undesirable as I have had slide to frame peening, and luckily the Colt Combat Elite was still within warranty and I sent it back to Colt. They replaced the frame, but did not do anything about the action timing. So I sent that pistol off to Wilson Arms, and they made everything perfect. It is a sad comment that the gunsmiths at Wilson Arms understood 1911’s better than Colt’s gunsmiths.

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I adjust the powder charge so I get 800 fps plus or minus, and that load shoots well in my 1911’s. I have a 1990’s keg of AA#5 that I am shooting up. It is a ball powder, the better metering means little to nothing in actual velocity spreads, and the little balls will gum up a Dillion powder horn. I don’t plan to buy new unless I get some dirt cheap, but adjust the load so a 230 FMJ moves 800 fps, and pretty much, it will group in the middle, and function the pistol.

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One of my favorites is WST with 200grn bullets, in the .45. WST is faster than W231, so I don't normally like it with 230's because you have to redline the load to get near factory velocity (which is what I normally duplicate) but it works well for target velocity loads... light recoil, very clean, and very good accuracy.
Might want to mention also, WST burns cooler than some fast powders and doesn’t need a head start getting going so neck tension isn’t as critical. Still need enough to prevent the feed ramp from pushing the bullet back but it’s not like No.7 or Blue Dot that both need a heavy load to push and a tight fit. I like it (WST) for 185gr Noslers and 200gr cast.
 
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