I said the same thing in post #22 on page 1.
1911 break in period
- Thread starter md7
- Start date
I said the same thing in post #22 on page 1.
Lo-Profile
Member
Have 10 1911's from Rock Island to Wilson Combat in 5 different calibers
None have required a breaking in period.
None have required a breaking in period.
aaaaa
Member
trackskippy
Member
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And youre assuming that 1000 got things figured out.1000 rounds? We just doubled the price of a $500 gun!
And if youve reached your limit, and had enough, a muzzle hold, boomerang throw technique is youre best bet, if youre going for the distance record.
aaaaa
Member
I just put another 130 rounds through my Charles Daly .45 ACP Field 1911. That brings it up to 330 rounds. Today included 40 JHP and 90 FMJ. The gun experienced some jams but I saw considerable improvement over prior range trips. I can wiggle the slide slightly but no rattle and the barrel is rock solid. Used mostly the Ed Brown magazine but ran the OEM magazine (Mac-Gar so I am told) a few times too. The gun is very accurate when I take the time to make steady aim. Quite please and itching to get back on to the range again with it. Have 250 rounds of Armscor 45 ACP 230gr FMJ supposed to be dropping at my front door yet this evening, but that is not even enough. I want more!
citizenconn
Member
Among all the 1911s I've owned, the only one that needed a significant break in of any kind was my 10mm Springfield Ronin. The recoil spring was so strong on that thing initially it took 2 men and a little boy to rack it. I worked on breaking in that spring for a couple weeks before I ever took it to the range to shoot it.
I have shot some GI 1911A1s that had extremely loose slide to frame fit and they all functioned just fine. Even on the looses of them, the barrel/bushing fit and barrel to slide fit were fine. While they weren't match grade as far as accuracy, they always functioned in all the different environments I was in. They even worked after 3-4 day sand storms where you couldn't see your hand in front of your face. And I always qualified expert with them loose "battle rattle" 1911s.
As stated all mechanical stuff does break in to a certain point, one should not need to fire X amount of rounds to break any firearm in.
Now if you are a bullseye shooter or looking for the upmost accuracy, then get a custom 1911 with a tight fit. But if you want one that will work every single time in all types of conditions, get one with a little looser fit.
I'm not a bullseye shooter so I don't mind a good old "battle rattle" 1911 as long as the barrel/bushing and barrel to slide fits are good.
As stated all mechanical stuff does break in to a certain point, one should not need to fire X amount of rounds to break any firearm in.
Now if you are a bullseye shooter or looking for the upmost accuracy, then get a custom 1911 with a tight fit. But if you want one that will work every single time in all types of conditions, get one with a little looser fit.
I'm not a bullseye shooter so I don't mind a good old "battle rattle" 1911 as long as the barrel/bushing and barrel to slide fits are good.
aaaaa
Member
Wow, Field strip every 50 rounds to oil it? Seems you can oil a 1911 quite well without stripping it.
I’m not bothered by a small break in period. Guns are machines, so if it takes a couple of hundred rounds to get a pistol settled, I’m ok with that. I’d vet the pistol with that many rounds, anyway.
I’ve had 2 SA GI 1911s. In theory, they should have been identical. No. 1 ran like a top … for 3 weeks before it was stolen. No. 2 was completely choketastic, and it didn’t settle in. So I sent it to the ‘smith. IOW, neither one really broke in.
The one pistol that I do have that benefitted from a break in was my Shield Plus. My Shield 1.0 was 100% reliable out of the box. Never missed a round. My Plus had a few minor issues through about the first 100-150 rounds. After that, she’s been flawless.
I’ve had 2 SA GI 1911s. In theory, they should have been identical. No. 1 ran like a top … for 3 weeks before it was stolen. No. 2 was completely choketastic, and it didn’t settle in. So I sent it to the ‘smith. IOW, neither one really broke in.
The one pistol that I do have that benefitted from a break in was my Shield Plus. My Shield 1.0 was 100% reliable out of the box. Never missed a round. My Plus had a few minor issues through about the first 100-150 rounds. After that, she’s been flawless.
I followed those instructions for my DW Heritage. A small vial of oil was included with the pistol, so I used that. No failures in break in— or ever.
I have a good friend who is big into Ford Mustangs and I was with him when he fired up his Shelby GT500 after he rebuilt the engine.First order of business was up through the gears,full throttle and he gave her not a breath between shifts.The acceleration was incredible,and when that short run was over and were turning around to do it again I said"so much for the break in period",and he just laughed ans told me that if it won't stand that the first time out there's no need to break it in.All things mechanical that have parts that rub on one another will wear in a bit,but if everything fits right all breaking in does is confirm reliability and wear the parts enough to smooth things out a bit.My limited experience with the 1911 platform has told me that if they're going to work,they'll work right out of the box if good ammo and proper lubrication are used.
And known good magazines.
I'm going to take from that that you having had a chance to shoot a NIB Baer 1911
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,486
If I was spending $2500-$3000 for a 1911, I would expect part of that would be them breaking the gun in and making sure it functioned 100% out of the box. And Id be seriously pissed if the didnt!
I actually expect that with a $500 1911, but guess Im silly like that.
Then again, every factory new, and all the used Glocks, HK's, and SIG's Ive bought all worked fine from the first round fired. So if they can do it, why cant the lower end 1911 makers?
I actually expect that with a $500 1911, but guess Im silly like that.
Then again, every factory new, and all the used Glocks, HK's, and SIG's Ive bought all worked fine from the first round fired. So if they can do it, why cant the lower end 1911 makers?
Because the 1911 was designed to be manufactured at a time when handfittting was cheaper than machining. A certain amount of hand fitting was required for it to function.
The problem is that when they tried to lower hand fitting cost by adding modern production manufacturing processes, they cut some corners to try to keep the price point to a level where they could sell enough to justify production. It has been said many time that a correctly made enrty level 1911 would cost about $2500-$3000.
Rumor has it that H&K considered jumping into the 1911 market when they were looking at a replacement for their .45ACP USP. A couple of well known 1911 users were consulted as to what was needed. They shelved the idea when they found that they couldn't sell enough H&K 1911s at the price point they arrived at to justify starting production. The price point to make a H&K quality 1911?...$4k+ back when they were considering it. H&K introduced the HK45 instead
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Just about all of my 1911 guns I bought used and never a problem. The only new gun was an unfired Kahr Arms GI copy I got from an aunt after her father passed away. Only one range trip so maybe 50 rounds and so far so good.
Ron
Ron
Madcap_Magician
Member
I think it's less about a break-in period and more about a "If there's any problems, they'll show up in the first couple hundred rounds."
Riomouse911
Member
I have 6 1911’s, 3 .45 ACP and 3 9mm’s. 5 of them I bought new and one was used (A Kimber Ultra Carry II 9mm). None of my guns needed a break in, and other than a few crummy .45 magazines I haven’t had a bobble with any of them.
I have seen a Staccato 2011 choke numerous times when it was new. The owner tried all three mags it came with, it hiccuped with all three. (I sent the owner home with a Glock 19 and holster, the Staccato was not close to being reliable enough for a duty gun.) I have been told that this particular gun has been fired a bunch more and is now working as expected, but when it was new it wasn’t very good at all.
Stay safe.
I have seen a Staccato 2011 choke numerous times when it was new. The owner tried all three mags it came with, it hiccuped with all three. (I sent the owner home with a Glock 19 and holster, the Staccato was not close to being reliable enough for a duty gun.) I have been told that this particular gun has been fired a bunch more and is now working as expected, but when it was new it wasn’t very good at all.
Stay safe.
JTQ
Member
In fairness, we've had bunches of threads from folks with Glock's, HK's and any number of super reliable polymer striker fired pistols that have had various feeding, extraction, and ejection issues with their new guns.
These guns, all with superb reliability reputations, and they are well deserved reputations, are usually new guns with fresh recoil springs, designed for NATO and other high performance rounds, that are being fed an opening diet of lightweight, low powered ammo. This weak ammo has a hard time driving the slide with these new, stiff, recoil springs. Simply switching to more robust ammo for the first couple hundred of rounds allows these guns to work with any cheap ammo you can find, but they choke on the cheap stuff when they are new.
I don't consider this a knock on the gun, or the recoil spring - though we have lots of members that do - but rather a knock on cheap ammo.
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I see the same thing. This is especially true with home built pistols. I would see guys come asking for help on their Polymer 80 builds and one of the first questions I always asked was what ammo were they using. 9 time out of 10 if there wasn't anything wrong with the pistol. it was the weaker training/range ammo causing the problems. I have also seen this with factory pistols too, both hammer and striker fired. Most of the cheap bulk ammo marketed as range/training ammo is on the weaker side.
And it is no different than with AR's either. Again, I will always suggest running at least 10 rounds of NATO 5.56 ammo through any new AR if it was bought or built.
Riomouse911
Member
It was Win 124 gr fmj. Certainly not IMI blacktip UZI rounds in power, but the hundreds of thousands of rounds that I have bought for the agency and myself over the years have shown me that these have never failed to cycle my personal 9mm’s such as 1911’s, CZ’s, Rugers, Glocks, or Beretta, or our dozens of agency Glock 19, 26, and Mp5’s / Mp5k’s because they are “underpowered.”
The Staccato was new, stiff and didn’t cycle right off the bat. Now, apparently, it does. It needed a bit of a break in before running like a top, no big deal.
Stay safe.
You have to run them enough to determine the reliability of the pistol.
When this was new and unmodified, cartridges would jam on the breech face. Problem was a burr around the firing pin hole. I removed that burr with something and that problem was fixed. I am a believer in having a polished 1911 breechface. It does not hurt to take a brass bristle brush and scrub off Parkerizing, etc, that might be on the breechface of a new 1911.
This RIA ejected magazines when new
the magazine latch was either insufficient, or as I now suspect, held the magazine too high. As the slide went forward, the magazine was ejected down! RIA sent me a replacement, this was the old one
Magazines sat in the pistol very low with the replacement mag release. Lots of clearance between bottom of magazine and bottom of grip. Also, I could feel a very distinct bump, bump, as cartridges fed into the chamber. If I reloaded the bullet several times, the bullet was shoved deeper into the case each loading. The bump, bump had to be the bullet hitting the feed ramp, and finally chambering.
Then one day, this happened. The round fired, the magazine and all its contents ejected, and I had a case with a blown case head in the pistol.
I did not know if it was my reloads or not. I chronographed and targeted the load, and it did not seem excessive. This is the load. A 230 FMJ leaving a five inch barrel at 805 fps.
The pistol, once I racked the slide, the slide moved freely back and forth. My beautiful replacement coco bolo grips were cracked. The magazine base spring disappeared, and something hit my chin and caused a bruise, something hit the roof over the firing line. Gas release pushed the bullets into unfired rounds in the magazine. Since I had flying springs, bullets, I am glad I always wear glasses! Could have gotten something in the eyeballs. . Something that really helped me was the fact the bottom of the magazine was a piece of plastic and blew out easily. Quick gas release is important to keep pressures from building. If pressure builds, things can get worse. I might not have just cracked my cocobolo grips, but had them blown into my hand.
I field stripped the RIA, wiped everything out, and re-oiled. The slide racked, the hammer fell, the pistol was operable. This pistol is made of 4140 steel, and I am certain had I been firing some WW1 relic, made from un heat treated plain carbon steels, I could have ended up with a bulged or bent slide. But this thing, all I have had to do, is field strip, wipe out the powder residue, reassemble, and it functions. Today's guns are built much better.
After wiping and reassembly, I loaded up a different batch of ammunition and shot that. Everything worked. Because I was uncertain about the ammunition, it took time for me to shoot the kaboom batch up, but when I did, it all went bang. Because I was concerned that pressure might be high, or there was something wrong with the powder, I cut my loads by 3 tenths of a grain and shot an ammunition can of it. This reduced load has to be a mild load. I was very careful about my reloading procedures. This load went 715 fps.
And what do you know, before the ammunition can of the reduced load was empty, I got a high pressure round. The primer flowed back into the firing pin hole, the case stayed on the bolt face, and the slide was jammed back.
That was when I decided that while bad reloads were still a could be, bullet set back was something to worry about, and fix. Due to case weight variations, it is fruitless to attempt to weigh pistol rounds. Loaded rounds vary more by four grains, so you are never going to catch a double charge, or an excessive charge, by weight. Fed the same bullet several times and the cartridge OAL lessens. I consider that risky. I purchased an EGW higher magazine catch and installed it. I still get bullet set back, but overall, not enough to cause a high pressure incident. I still feel a bump-bump as the round feeds, but it is less pronounced than before. Keeping my fingers crossed, but I don’t shoot this pistol as much as I used to.
I am convinced the cartridge hitting the feed ramp/barrel and seating the bullet deep in the case caused my case head blowout. I am of the opinion that a good hard hit deep seated a bullet and the reduced case volume caused pressures to skyrocket. Since then, I am back to the full load of 230 FMJ with 7.8 grains AA#5 and shooting it in other 1911’s. The kaboom had nothing to do with powder deterioration or age. The powder is 1990’s AA#5 and I am making an effort to shoot up the keg as age wise, it is long in the tooth.
This pistol also has a very hard recoil, somewhere in the barrel lugh/slide stop geometry, the barrel lug parts from the slide stop early in the pressure drop, which causes high slide speeds at unlock. This is based on the analysis in this thread:
Old School Barrel Fit vs Modern Fit
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t18500-old-school-barrel-fit-vs-modern-fit
My RIA eats shock buffs like candy. I believe this also translates to a high slide return. And, this pistol is very hard to shoot well. I have installed very powerful recoil springs, the strongest mainspring I could find, and at the suggestion of @Steve in Allentown installed a flat bottomed slide stop. The flat bottomed slide stop needed to be fitted, and I could tell the extractor was clocking due to belling in the slide stop notch on the extractor. I don’t think the extractor is clocking now, and the cartridge ejection pattern is more consistent, and the brass does not go as far with a heavy recoil spring, heavy mainspring, and the flat bottomed slide stop.
Rock Island states FMJ only, and they are right, the barrel fouls excessively with lead bullets. I have gone through two bullet grit polishing sessions, and probably a 1000 rounds plus of FMJ, and the tube is brighter. There is still jacket fouling which takes JB Bore past to remove. If I shoot lead, it leads excessively, but less than before.
In comparison, these other bargain basement brands 1911’s have been trouble free and fun to shoot.
Every bargain basement 1911 was the “best of three” for fit and trigger. I brought an oil bottle in for the Charles Daly and the Tisas and oiled the slide rails, hammer hooks, end of muzzle, and barrel hood and locking lugs. I racked the slide enough to get a feel of the smoothness, pressed on the muzzle and barrel bushing, back of the barrel with the hammer forward, when the slide is in battery, tried to rock the slide on the frame, and of course tested the hammer pull. I am impressed with the fit of these, they are better than the series 70 and 80 Colt NM pistols from the 1990’s and earlier. These have the tightness that it used to take a gunsmith to achieve by peening the slide rails. And filing barrel bushings to fit, cutting the barrel lug to a perfect fit, etc. Slide stops are all loose but I can fix that. Rounds are ejected in a 360 sphere, some bounding off me when I shoot. Takes forever to find my brass.
My Les Baer wadcutter will eject all cases into my shooting net. A high end 1911 will spoil you.
I have been very pleasantly pleased in the reliability of the Tisas, Charles Daly, and ATI with my assortment of crap GI magazines, bargain basement new magazines, etc. My good magazines are being used in pistol matches. I am surprised how well my KCI bargain basement magazines are doing, I hope they keep on running.
A new owner of a 1911 should shoot the thing enough with the magazines he plans to carry, until he is convinced of the reliability and accuracy of the thing. New 1911’s can be finicky about magazines and bullets, and that has to be determined at the firing range. The Charles Daly and my Remington R1 1911 do not like my 230 LRN loads. I loaded these cartridges to 1.250 OAL but the slides won't close fully. Pushed the bullets in to 1.245" and the same cartridges feed like a champ in these pistols. These are things you have to find by shooting.
When this was new and unmodified, cartridges would jam on the breech face. Problem was a burr around the firing pin hole. I removed that burr with something and that problem was fixed. I am a believer in having a polished 1911 breechface. It does not hurt to take a brass bristle brush and scrub off Parkerizing, etc, that might be on the breechface of a new 1911.
This RIA ejected magazines when new
the magazine latch was either insufficient, or as I now suspect, held the magazine too high. As the slide went forward, the magazine was ejected down! RIA sent me a replacement, this was the old one
Magazines sat in the pistol very low with the replacement mag release. Lots of clearance between bottom of magazine and bottom of grip. Also, I could feel a very distinct bump, bump, as cartridges fed into the chamber. If I reloaded the bullet several times, the bullet was shoved deeper into the case each loading. The bump, bump had to be the bullet hitting the feed ramp, and finally chambering.
Then one day, this happened. The round fired, the magazine and all its contents ejected, and I had a case with a blown case head in the pistol.
I did not know if it was my reloads or not. I chronographed and targeted the load, and it did not seem excessive. This is the load. A 230 FMJ leaving a five inch barrel at 805 fps.
The pistol, once I racked the slide, the slide moved freely back and forth. My beautiful replacement coco bolo grips were cracked. The magazine base spring disappeared, and something hit my chin and caused a bruise, something hit the roof over the firing line. Gas release pushed the bullets into unfired rounds in the magazine. Since I had flying springs, bullets, I am glad I always wear glasses! Could have gotten something in the eyeballs. . Something that really helped me was the fact the bottom of the magazine was a piece of plastic and blew out easily. Quick gas release is important to keep pressures from building. If pressure builds, things can get worse. I might not have just cracked my cocobolo grips, but had them blown into my hand.
I field stripped the RIA, wiped everything out, and re-oiled. The slide racked, the hammer fell, the pistol was operable. This pistol is made of 4140 steel, and I am certain had I been firing some WW1 relic, made from un heat treated plain carbon steels, I could have ended up with a bulged or bent slide. But this thing, all I have had to do, is field strip, wipe out the powder residue, reassemble, and it functions. Today's guns are built much better.
After wiping and reassembly, I loaded up a different batch of ammunition and shot that. Everything worked. Because I was uncertain about the ammunition, it took time for me to shoot the kaboom batch up, but when I did, it all went bang. Because I was concerned that pressure might be high, or there was something wrong with the powder, I cut my loads by 3 tenths of a grain and shot an ammunition can of it. This reduced load has to be a mild load. I was very careful about my reloading procedures. This load went 715 fps.
And what do you know, before the ammunition can of the reduced load was empty, I got a high pressure round. The primer flowed back into the firing pin hole, the case stayed on the bolt face, and the slide was jammed back.
That was when I decided that while bad reloads were still a could be, bullet set back was something to worry about, and fix. Due to case weight variations, it is fruitless to attempt to weigh pistol rounds. Loaded rounds vary more by four grains, so you are never going to catch a double charge, or an excessive charge, by weight. Fed the same bullet several times and the cartridge OAL lessens. I consider that risky. I purchased an EGW higher magazine catch and installed it. I still get bullet set back, but overall, not enough to cause a high pressure incident. I still feel a bump-bump as the round feeds, but it is less pronounced than before. Keeping my fingers crossed, but I don’t shoot this pistol as much as I used to.
I am convinced the cartridge hitting the feed ramp/barrel and seating the bullet deep in the case caused my case head blowout. I am of the opinion that a good hard hit deep seated a bullet and the reduced case volume caused pressures to skyrocket. Since then, I am back to the full load of 230 FMJ with 7.8 grains AA#5 and shooting it in other 1911’s. The kaboom had nothing to do with powder deterioration or age. The powder is 1990’s AA#5 and I am making an effort to shoot up the keg as age wise, it is long in the tooth.
This pistol also has a very hard recoil, somewhere in the barrel lugh/slide stop geometry, the barrel lug parts from the slide stop early in the pressure drop, which causes high slide speeds at unlock. This is based on the analysis in this thread:
Old School Barrel Fit vs Modern Fit
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t18500-old-school-barrel-fit-vs-modern-fit
My RIA eats shock buffs like candy. I believe this also translates to a high slide return. And, this pistol is very hard to shoot well. I have installed very powerful recoil springs, the strongest mainspring I could find, and at the suggestion of @Steve in Allentown installed a flat bottomed slide stop. The flat bottomed slide stop needed to be fitted, and I could tell the extractor was clocking due to belling in the slide stop notch on the extractor. I don’t think the extractor is clocking now, and the cartridge ejection pattern is more consistent, and the brass does not go as far with a heavy recoil spring, heavy mainspring, and the flat bottomed slide stop.
Rock Island states FMJ only, and they are right, the barrel fouls excessively with lead bullets. I have gone through two bullet grit polishing sessions, and probably a 1000 rounds plus of FMJ, and the tube is brighter. There is still jacket fouling which takes JB Bore past to remove. If I shoot lead, it leads excessively, but less than before.
In comparison, these other bargain basement brands 1911’s have been trouble free and fun to shoot.
Every bargain basement 1911 was the “best of three” for fit and trigger. I brought an oil bottle in for the Charles Daly and the Tisas and oiled the slide rails, hammer hooks, end of muzzle, and barrel hood and locking lugs. I racked the slide enough to get a feel of the smoothness, pressed on the muzzle and barrel bushing, back of the barrel with the hammer forward, when the slide is in battery, tried to rock the slide on the frame, and of course tested the hammer pull. I am impressed with the fit of these, they are better than the series 70 and 80 Colt NM pistols from the 1990’s and earlier. These have the tightness that it used to take a gunsmith to achieve by peening the slide rails. And filing barrel bushings to fit, cutting the barrel lug to a perfect fit, etc. Slide stops are all loose but I can fix that. Rounds are ejected in a 360 sphere, some bounding off me when I shoot. Takes forever to find my brass.
My Les Baer wadcutter will eject all cases into my shooting net. A high end 1911 will spoil you.
I have been very pleasantly pleased in the reliability of the Tisas, Charles Daly, and ATI with my assortment of crap GI magazines, bargain basement new magazines, etc. My good magazines are being used in pistol matches. I am surprised how well my KCI bargain basement magazines are doing, I hope they keep on running.
A new owner of a 1911 should shoot the thing enough with the magazines he plans to carry, until he is convinced of the reliability and accuracy of the thing. New 1911’s can be finicky about magazines and bullets, and that has to be determined at the firing range. The Charles Daly and my Remington R1 1911 do not like my 230 LRN loads. I loaded these cartridges to 1.250 OAL but the slides won't close fully. Pushed the bullets in to 1.245" and the same cartridges feed like a champ in these pistols. These are things you have to find by shooting.
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aaaaa
Member
Very informative post. Am pleased to see you got good performance from the Charles Daly Field, which is what I own. As for cartridge length, my gun's owner manual says I should run ammo that is minimum 1.26" long, which does not fit your experience. I think optimal length of the round may depend on the magazine used, style and length of the feed lips. But that is not where you had an issue, yours was in chambering, so I wonder if there is something with your gun preventing the longer cartridges from fully seating in the chamber.
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Bullet profile is the determining factor-- not just OAL!
I believe you are right. I am running 230 FMJ's set to 1.265", but subsequent batches are set to 1.250" Plus or minus. All feed like champs in all my 1911's. The lead bullets were set to 1.250" but these Reese Teague Valiant Brand bullets have a visible shoulder out of the case. I think that shoulder was bumping into the chamber of the Charles Daly and the Remington R1 1911. Did not bother my Tisas. Just pushed the bullet in a tiny bit more, and it feeds. Hope I can remember this the next time I load LRN.
I learned with my Clackamus Kimber about ignoring the advice to seat bullets so that the base is in line with the barrel hood. That works great with the chamber the cartridge OAL is set to. But guess what, not everyone uses the same reamer! Kimber did not, and all my old ammunition set up for Colt 1911's were too long for the Kimber. So, I continue to push the bullet in so all ammunition chambers and extracts from all my 1911's.
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