Pre-Magnum Outdoors Cartridge

Should have made this a poll.

StrawHat said:

Is there any additional rearward movement when the ACP cylinder is installed and you go to eject the shells? I ask because the frame lug on a S&W Model 25-2 is different than the frame lug on a S&W Model 25-5.

Kevin

Click to expand...

Nope. According to Roy Jinks the cylinder is the one from a 25-3 and intended for this application but in the case of the 25-3 the barrel engraving reads 125th Anniversary 45 Colt Caliber. My 25-3 is in the thread above. Like the 25-2 it's a tack driver.

This one is in 44 Special. Great shooter with my reloads.

This one is in 44 WCF. A little more difficult to reload but still OK once you get the hang of it.

Skeeter Skelton once got through a special order for a S&W .45 LC.
He described it as a cross between a 1950 - tapered barrel; and 1955 - 3 Ts.

This is the S&W Model 1950, 45 ACP, Target revolver. And as you can see, 3T’s.





A very few were made in 45 long Colt. Skeeter got one similar to this. I will have to find my notes on it referencing barrel length. I always wanted a 4” one when I wore a badge but the factory made even less of those! So, I built one from a Model 28-2





Kevin

Before the .357 and the .44M, would have to be the .45 Colt for me.

I carried one daily for many years and took untold numbers of varmints, pigs, and a few deer. I started out with a field load of a 325 grain LBT over a good dose of H110 but found this to be way too much for daily use. I settled on a 255 grain SWC at about 1000 FPS and shot a lot of these.

My handgun was a Ruger Bisley that started life as a 7.5 inch bbl. Ross Seyfried convinced me that a 5.5 inch barrel was ideal and so I had a couple of inches lopped off. I bought some oversized grips from somewhere and fitted them to the gun. I had the folks at El Paso saddlery make me a Threeperson's holster and matching belt. It proved accurate, portable and deadly. It is still one of my favorite handguns to this day and I bought my son the SS convertible version in hopes that he would find the same usefulness and enjoyment out of the gun and the cartridge.

I would gladly have carried the black powder version and felt adequately armed with no need for a magnum cartridge to supplant the power the .45 Colt.

ECVMatt said:

Before the .357 and the .44M, would have to be the .45 Colt for me.

I carried one daily for many years and took untold numbers of varmints, pigs, and a few deer. I started out with a field load of a 325 grain LBT over a good dose of H110 but found this to be way too much for daily use. I settled on a 255 grain SWC at about 1000 FPS and shot a lot of these.

My handgun was a Ruger Bisley that started life as a 7.5 inch bbl. Ross Seyfried convinced me that a 5.5 inch barrel was ideal and so I had a couple of inches lopped off. I bought some oversized grips from somewhere and fitted them to the gun. I had the folks at El Paso saddlery make me a Threeperson's holster and matching belt. It proved accurate, portable and deadly. It is still one of my favorite handguns to this day and I bought my son the SS convertible version in hopes that he would find the same usefulness and enjoyment out of the gun and the cartridge.

I would gladly have carried the black powder version and felt adequately armed with no need for a magnum cartridge to supplant the power the .45 Colt.

View attachment 1116993
View attachment 1116994

Click to expand...

I love my Bisleys, and I find the 5.6” barrel the perfect balance of shootability and portability .

Stay safe.

Forehand & Wadsworth 41 rimfire as pre magnum as it gets for revolvers

FWIW, the surplus 1917 Colt and S&W in 45acp were cheap and widely available at one time.

That would be a nice woods gun.

.308 Norma said:

My dad wasn't born until 1929, so he wasn't carrying anything in the woods between 1920 and 1930. And I don't know what the "preferred" woods handgun cartridge was in the 1940s and early 1950s, but I do know Dad would have been carrying a "32" of some flavor back then. Dad was a "32 anything" type of guy.

Click to expand...

My grandfather was carrying a .38 special when he was killed -- he was a county motorcycle patrolman, chasing a speeder and someone backed out onto the road in front of him. My Dad carried a .38 special when he was doing oil exploration on the upper Amazon during the great Motoloni Uprising in the '40s. My, I carry a .45, either an M1911 or a Colt New Service.

Dave T said:

"...23 Triple Locks were reported to have been chambered for 45 Colt." Twenty three revolvers hardly makes that a standard chambering, more of an experiment. The Model of 1955 was never chambered by the factory in 45 Colt according to all the sources I have in my library. I fully admit I forgot about the M 25-3. My bad as the kids used to say.

Dave

Click to expand...

Pages 194-195 Standard Catalog of S&W, 4th edition.

Re:1955 .45 Target Model:
“Reported that around 15 were made in .45 Colt.”

Also predating the 25-3, was the 1950 Target Model, of which I forgot about, on pages 194-195:
“1953-1957: 200 were chambered in .45 Colt.”

And on pages 192-193: .45 Hand Ejector U..S.Army Model of 1917:
“Several known in .45 Colt caliber, worth substantial premium. One example is S/N 180445 shipped Feb 7, 1929 with nickel finish with 5 1/2” barrel. Later attributed to a Texas Ranger.”

With S&W you can almost never state absolutes, because they would often factory chamber limited numbers of their guns in calibers, finishes and barrel lengths special-requested by retailers, distributors or well heeled individuals that were not off the shelf production items. (Lew Horton is a modern example.) That is why many of these older factory made rarities usually go for five figures when they are sold.

I’m not trying to be argumentative, but I disagree with your statements. S&W did factory chamber the “triple lock” and their 1955 .45 target guns in .45 Colt caliber, plus they also chambered .45 Colt in the 1950 and the 1917 which predate the Model 25 series designation. So, I fully admit they were very rare, but that wasn’t a criteria of the OP.

Stay safe.

I wonder about the clerk issuing model numbers.
Why is a 1950 .45 Model 26 and 1955 .45 Model 25?

44-40 38-40 45 Colt and 44 Spl.

Deleted

Jim Watson said:

I wonder about the clerk issuing model numbers.
Why is a 1950 .45 Model 26 and 1955 .45 Model 25?

Click to expand...

There is quite a difference between the two. The Model 26 has a tapered barrel. The Model 25 barrels are one diameter from end to end. Both are 45 Caliber, and both have at times been offered in 45 ACP and 45 Colt.

I KNOW that.
My question is why the later version got the lower model number.

Jim Watson said:

I KNOW that.
My question is why the later version got the lower model number.

Click to expand...

No telling really. Model numbers would not have been a thing in either of those years. They were assigned years later, and the roll mark dies were eventually replaced by caliber markings so there would not be any confusion.

Model numbers were assigned in 1957 although not immediately marked across the board.
I don't guess there is any knowing how they got assigned chronologically backward on these guns.
Not to mention the Model 27 which had already been in production as the '.357 Magnum' for 20 years.

Mr. Mosin said:

Before the advent of........... but I'd love to know what the preferred woods handgun cartridge was back in say, 1920 or 1930. Probably something along the lines of a .44 Spl or similar. Grandpappy's Colt Single Action, or what have you.

Click to expand...

.

My father was a young man coming of age in the 1920s, he used a Colt Woodsman.
Also, he made reduced small game loads for his 30-40 Krag.

Right, they didn't call it the Woodsman for nothing.
And small game loads were apparently lots more common than the weight of a handgun in the woods.

44-40 for its rifle compatibility was popular, not bad ballistics. .45 Colt is no slouch with an over 250 grain bullet. I am not sure much large game was dispatched with those calibers unless in a rifle. Not u til recently was the .45 Colt available in a rifle. I think though that few probably ever engaged in handgun hunting until the 20th century just happened to be the tool at the time. The Magnums more than likely made it more feasible and popular. My guess is that small game was and is the .22’s domain.

Jim Watson said:

Skeeter Skelton once got through a special order for a S&W .45 LC.
He described it as a cross between a 1950 - tapered barrel; and 1955 - 3 Ts.

Click to expand...

I just found the thread about Skeeter’s revolver. It was a S&W Model 1950. The barrel was cut to 4”” and the revolver was converted to 45 long Colt.







When it shipped it was stamped as a Model 25-2!

Kevin

Barrel was probably cut to order at the factory, they did a fair amount of that, but not "converted", clearly invoiced from the factory in .45 LC. Long thread at
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...5-colt-made-skeeter-skelton-smith-wesson.html

But his FIRST special order .45 LC was a 6.5". Will post clip from his book in his words.

Here is what Skeeter said about his first special order .45 LC.